The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
You are right. Me posting it often doesn't make it right. The fact that it is factual makes it right.
What's your explanation for early OKC success?
- Thread starter idiot
- Start date
You are right. Me posting it often doesn't make it right. The fact that it is factual makes it right.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I did read the article, AllThatAmar has written several laughable articles. He even claims Kanter should have played in the DLEague and that Utah doesn't use their DLeague team to develop players like other teams do. Yeah, right. Tell me what other lottery pciks have been sent down for a notable period of time. I wonder how Kanter and Ergul would have reacted to that?
As I said, Enes had played ZERO minutes of college basketball the year before the draft. Do you make him starter? No, you give him sub minutes. The nest season, he COULD gripe. IINM, he averaged about 15 mins. But it sure looks like Big Al spent time teaching him some great offensive moves and footwork. I'd call that even more valuable than playing 25 mins. His third season the Jazz were FULLY committed to him. They made him a STARTER. But go back and look at those games. He was HORRIBLE on defense. So he was brought off the bench but STILL got the same number of minutes. Jazz were putting him in a position where defense was less important AND where he could be a HIGHER option on offense. And they brought him back as a STARTER again this season. And AGAIN he struggled on defense. But Quin stuck with him, kept him as the starter.
But then he makes his trade demand and his agent shows their true colors by using the draft position as a reason for entitlement. Look, I have no hard feelings towards Enes. But I get furious at those who say the Jazz didn't invest in his development, didn't give him opportunities. You bring up the PG situation. Yes, I agree; they both are terrible and something needs to be done about it. I wish we had borderline all-stars at guard positions so Dante and Trey would only play 15 mins/per. Then, if they improved enough, we'd let the contract of the vet expire so one of them could move into the starting lineup - JUST AS WE DID AFTER ENES' 2ND SEASON.
CAKAR
Well-Known Member
First of all thank you for you long answer.
No, I do not think that they should have played him infront of AL. I say that it was an absolute mistake to draft Kanter, while still having AL and Lil´sap on the team + Favors. The rebuild should have started 2011 or the Jazz should have gone another direction from the beginning...
Enes Kanter with 19 years of age was a raw bull, with need of playing time. Every one who has scouted him has said, that he needed playing time desperately.
They should either keep AL and Sap and not draft Enes. Or draft Enes and letting the rebuild begin 2011.... In his rockie year Kanter would easily average a double double.
You can call it "empty stat" but 19 year old Kanter avreging 12 points, 12 rebounds would have kept everyone exiting on this board. And he would have huge value if he was a starter from the beginning right now...
The rebuild just came to late... Imagine Utah drafting Damien Lillard ?
Lillard
Hayward
Carroll
Favors
Kanter
That would have been a heck of talent... or the other direction around...
Mo, Garret
Klay Thompson, Burks
Hayward, Carrol
Milsap, Favors
AL, Gobert
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
Kanter played the most minutes per game in December, he played less in Jan, and even less in Feb.
Derrick Favors, Rudy, and Gordon Hayward's biggest jumps in progress came this year, not in years past with Corbin.
How has Trey Burke and Dante Exum been developing throughout this year? Kanter, Favors, Gobert, Hayward. I love all these guys and people like you make it seem like if we don't blame Kanter entirely for his failure in Utah that we are somehow blaming the Gobert and Favors. Yet you ignore just how abysmal Dante and Exum have been playing.
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
I think we all agree that the Jazz shouldn't have drafted Enes Kanter and just leave our disagreements to ourselves and move on.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I agree that is a good article. Thanks for sharing.
Enes was our first #3 pick that we actually selected, and spent enough time here for me be to interested in his career well beyond us. He's like a good friend going away to college.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Taking BPA, while good if you are good at asset management, can bite you in the *** even if thy begin to develop, because you also have to make fit for these people. These are people first and foremost.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
No, I don't. First of all, Favors has improved every year. And so did Hayward in many facets of his game, until his shooting took a nosedive last season. Trey is probably a bust. He certainly has not earned starter minutes. Exum is a project. He probably should be gettin 10 mins/per. Unfortunately, we don't have an established starter at PG. It's an area that needs to be addressed. Ideally, Utah would have had a GOOD veteran in place (i'm not talking JLIII or Tinsley) when Trey was drafted. Then - just like we did with Enes - that veteran could be let go as Trey proved worthy of starting. If Trey was playing strong in Year #2 but that veteran was leading us on a playoff push, well I'd expect for Trey to want more playing time. But I'd also expect him to be happy we were contending for the playoffs and waited until after the season to let our veteran go. After all, in this scenario, coming into the season, we THOUGHT we saw some promise, but didn't know if he'd be quite ready to be a starter.
And the same with Exum. I've advocated all along for the Jazz to get a STARTING PG. I've stated that is their BIGGEST need - not a wing. Trey should be traded since Exum shows more potential. But Dante shouldn't get more than 15-18 mins as the backup UNTIL he's ready. Then you trade that vet or let his contract simply expire and give the reins to Exum. Utah did exactly that after Enes' 2nd season. I'd say that was pretty fair. He was shorted some minutes his 2nd season. That's it. But then the Jazz handed him the starting job. And he fumbled it by being ATROCIOUS on defense. Maybe there really was something to what Richard Jefferson said about Enes not caring about defense.
As for this year, yes, his minutes were dwindling, He had a couple of months to prove he was going to be a workhorse and a franchise big for Utah. He failed to do that on the defensive end. On the other hand, Gobert was having some amazing games as a backup. Jazz made the call (Lindsey admitted they had already been shopping Enes earlier in the season) and Enes made it easier by making the trade demand.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Well, we have also said you don't just draft for need. Apparently BPA was Kanter. Drafting for need would have given us Knight. In hindsight, yes, it may have been a better choice. But also, how did we know we'd draft Rudy Gobert two years later and he'd develop this rapidly? Bigs are pretty hard to get, and I think KOC was looking at Favors/Kanter being our future. And it could very well have been that if not for Rudy beasting.
But better it happened now and we learned that Kanter wants a max deal. Even without Gobert, I'm not sure DL was willing to go that high.I'm not sorry Utah drafted Enes. I'm sorry he wouldn't stay as part of the rotation for a reasonable deal (maybe $12M - same as Favors?). That would have been an amazing rotation for us. OKC is very lucky to have him. It was really a no lose deal for them. They HAVE to contend NOW. And they had to get a big to replace Adams. When he returns they have an amazing rotation. Actually they have that now. Adams might be the future, but they're getting great production from Collison and McGary to go along with Ibaka and Kanter.
Quite the crowded frontcourt when Adams is back. They also signed Collision to a two year extension, but Kanter has the most talent of them behind Ibaka so he still should get quality PT.
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
Drafting for BPA is great when someone is clearly the best player. However Kanter was a big risk. One that shouldn't have been taken with Al, Paul, and Dfav with the 3rd pick.
railroadtycoon
New Member
Hello
I am from turkish posters group what i'm going to sum up is the truth .
Kanter ain't that good player, he was always overrated in his offensive skills and his defensive instincts are abysmal at best.
He is also not a legit 6.11 player but 6.9 at best that makes him undersized center combining with his pathetic vertical reach making him a starter before gobert was a huge mistake. If gobert did start for jazz for the entire season with 30+ minutes you guys could be 50/50 team.
Now with the okc situation, what he accomplished with them in 2 games is just sheer luck for him .he replaced former center(perkins) who is one of the worst in league made enes look like gasol out there faced against the 2 poor teams .
If that mcgary guy did start he would average 12-10 in those games hell even gobert would be like 15-15-5-5
So wait for ten games he ll be like 8-7-0,2 regular enes soon.
mark my words he is the worst center in okc squad.
have fun
I am from turkish posters group what i'm going to sum up is the truth .
Kanter ain't that good player, he was always overrated in his offensive skills and his defensive instincts are abysmal at best.
He is also not a legit 6.11 player but 6.9 at best that makes him undersized center combining with his pathetic vertical reach making him a starter before gobert was a huge mistake. If gobert did start for jazz for the entire season with 30+ minutes you guys could be 50/50 team.
Now with the okc situation, what he accomplished with them in 2 games is just sheer luck for him .he replaced former center(perkins) who is one of the worst in league made enes look like gasol out there faced against the 2 poor teams .
If that mcgary guy did start he would average 12-10 in those games hell even gobert would be like 15-15-5-5
So wait for ten games he ll be like 8-7-0,2 regular enes soon.
mark my words he is the worst center in okc squad.
have fun