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When will Hayward surpass AK47 as the 2nd best Jazz SF of All Time?

Statistically Aks best season was when he was 22. He might have improved but he didnt do any better statistically. If we compare this season of Haywards to AKs best year it isnt really close. Hayward is scoring more points off of better shooting from every part of the court. Averaging more assists. Turning the ball over less even though Hayward has a higher usage. Averaged more defensive rebounds. Ak got more o boards but Hayward never goes for those and Quin wants the players to get back on D. Hayward gets to the free throw line more. AK did block more shots and get more steals. AK was a better help defender. He often cheated off his own guy a lot and left him open. If you compare their 7th year when they were both the same age it is really ugly for AK. Hayward destroys his stats. Im not sure how this is much of a debate. AK slowly got worse every year after 22. Hayward gets better every year and continues to improve and work on his game. AK was busy playing WOW, not talking to his teammates, pouting, reading books and crying to train hard and get better. AK never did a proper workout program to get stronger.

AK was a fun player to watch. He was very unique and had a lot of potential when he was 22. Giving him the max was the right choice at the time. I wish AK kept working hard to improve and we might have been really good in those Deron/Boozer years. If 26 year old AK was on our current team instead of Hayward we would not be winning nearly as much.

Also keeping in mind AK was the 4th option on offense for the Jazz for their good years and was often left wide open he still stuggled to score with consistency and hit decent numbers. Most of his 3s were wide wide open. Hayward is our #1 option on a team that is probably better already. AK would never be the #1 on a team this good.

Hayward as our #1 option right now has our team in the 5th seed spot as the most injured team in the NBA.

Even 2 years ago when Hayward was the sole focus of the team, often was double/triple teamed and his first year as the number 1 option on a meh team Hayward put up more points, more assists and better efficiency than AKs best season.

Help defense AK>Hay
Length AK>Hayw
Every other aspect of basketball Hayward>AK maybe for a bunch of those such as shooting and scoring Hayward>>AK.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Statistically Aks best season was when he was 22. He might have improved but he didnt do any better statistically. If we compare this season of Haywards to AKs best year it isnt really close. Hayward is scoring more points off of better shooting from every part of the court. Averaging more assists. Turning the ball over less even though Hayward has a higher usage. Averaged more defensive rebounds. Ak got more o boards but Hayward never goes for those and Quin wants the players to get back on D. Hayward gets to the free throw line more. AK did block more shots and get more steals. AK was a better help defender. He often cheated off his own guy a lot and left him open. If you compare their 7th year when they were both the same age it is really ugly for AK. Hayward destroys his stats. Im not sure how this is much of a debate. AK slowly got worse every year after 22. Hayward gets better every year and continues to improve and work on his game. AK was busy playing WOW, not talking to his teammates, pouting, reading books and crying to train hard and get better. AK never did a proper workout program to get stronger.

AK was a fun player to watch. He was very unique and had a lot of potential when he was 22. Giving him the max was the right choice at the time. I wish AK kept working hard to improve and we might have been really good in those Deron/Boozer years. If 26 year old AK was on our current team instead of Hayward we would not be winning nearly as much.

Also keeping in mind AK was the 4th option on offense for the Jazz for their good years and was often left wide open he still stuggled to score with consistency and hit decent numbers. Most of his 3s were wide wide open. Hayward is our #1 option on a team that is probably better already. AK would never be the #1 on a team this good.

Hayward as our #1 option right now has our team in the 5th seed spot as the most injured team in the NBA.

Even 2 years ago when Hayward was the sole focus of the team, often was double/triple teamed and his first year as the number 1 option on a meh team Hayward put up more points, more assists and better efficiency than AKs best season.

Help defense AK>Hay
Length AK>Hayw
Every other aspect of basketball Hayward>AK maybe for a bunch of those such as shooting and scoring Hayward>>AK.
Click to expand...

If Hayward had played in that period with Deron Williams, Boozer and Okur, he would have risked to be the 3rd or 4th option on offense as well! They were all three in their prime and Deron and Boozer two-times NBA All-Stars!

What does Hayward to help the team to win games when he struggles on offense? I have rarely seen Hayward making defensive stops down the stretch, I mean decisive steals, blocks or rebounds.

Hayward's 3s are not so contested either.

I agree that Hayward is a more complete offensive player than AK, no doubt about it, but you are underestimating the Kirilenko factor!
 
Ron Mexico said:
Statistically Aks best season was when he was 22. He might have improved but he didnt do any better statistically. If we compare this season of Haywards to AKs best year it isnt really close. Hayward is scoring more points off of better shooting from every part of the court. Averaging more assists. Turning the ball over less even though Hayward has a higher usage. Averaged more defensive rebounds. Ak got more o boards but Hayward never goes for those and Quin wants the players to get back on D. Hayward gets to the free throw line more. AK did block more shots and get more steals. AK was a better help defender. He often cheated off his own guy a lot and left him open. If you compare their 7th year when they were both the same age it is really ugly for AK. Hayward destroys his stats. Im not sure how this is much of a debate. AK slowly got worse every year after 22. Hayward gets better every year and continues to improve and work on his game. AK was busy playing WOW, not talking to his teammates, pouting, reading books and crying to train hard and get better. AK never did a proper workout program to get stronger.

AK was a fun player to watch. He was very unique and had a lot of potential when he was 22. Giving him the max was the right choice at the time. I wish AK kept working hard to improve and we might have been really good in those Deron/Boozer years. If 26 year old AK was on our current team instead of Hayward we would not be winning nearly as much.

Also keeping in mind AK was the 4th option on offense for the Jazz for their good years and was often left wide open he still stuggled to score with consistency and hit decent numbers. Most of his 3s were wide wide open. Hayward is our #1 option on a team that is probably better already. AK would never be the #1 on a team this good.

Hayward as our #1 option right now has our team in the 5th seed spot as the most injured team in the NBA.

Even 2 years ago when Hayward was the sole focus of the team, often was double/triple teamed and his first year as the number 1 option on a meh team Hayward put up more points, more assists and better efficiency than AKs best season.

Help defense AK>Hay
Length AK>Hayw
Every other aspect of basketball Hayward>AK maybe for a bunch of those such as shooting and scoring Hayward>>AK.
Click to expand...

People who think AK is better are just obsessed with the idea of what AK could have been.
 
Diamond77 said:
If Hayward had played in that period with Deron Williams, Boozer and Okur, he would have risked to be the 3rd or 4th option on offense as well! They were all three in their prime and Deron and Boozer two-time NBA All-Stars!

What does Hayward to help the team to win games when he struggles on offense? I have rarely seen Hayward making defensive stops down the stretch, I mean decisive steals, blocks or rebounds.

Hayward's 3s are not so contested either.

I agree that Hayward is a more complete offensive player than AK, no doubt about it, but you are underestimating the Kirilenko factor!
Click to expand...

Jazz would have been a better team with current Hayward instead of AK during those years. He would have spaced the floor better, he would have been a better man defender, he would have passed the ball better, turned the ball over less, carried the team at times when hot and overall that team would have been much better. Hayward without the pressure of being the other teams main focus would do awesome. Hayward would have made our defense so much better. I am also not convinced AK is a better man on man defender. Hayward does a great job of staying in front of his man, fighting through screens, properly rotating much better than AK ever did. AKs blocks came from the weakside and he also gambled to get a lot of his steals. I have never seen someone leave a corner three shooters open as much as AK did.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
He was the reason our team never took the next step because he couldnt adapt his game.

But yeah he was sick when our team was bad and he could do w/e he wanted.
Click to expand...

It was Sloan mistake to try to turn him into a reliable jump shooter, instead of exploiting his strengths on offense.

Let's not forget he was finding ways to score decently even when Sloan decided to ignore him almost totally on offense.

Hayward is doing whatever he wants in the last 3 seasons too and we didn't qualify for the playoffs.

I blame Kirilenko that didn't work enough in the offseasons to improve his game and he was overpaid as well. But he was a great player!
 
Last edited:
Diamond77 said:
It was Sloan mistake to try to turn him into a reliable jump shooter, instead of exploiting his strengths on offense.

Let's not forget he was finding ways to score decently even when Sloan decided to ignore him almost totally on offense.

Hayward is doing whatever he wants in the last 3 seasons too and we didn't qualify for the playoffs.

I blame Kirilenko that didn't work enough in the offseasons to improve his game and he was overpaid as well. But he was a great player!
Click to expand...

Saint Cy of JFC said:
People who think AK is better are just obsessed with the idea of what AK could have been.
Click to expand...

.
 
At one time, I was, as Write4u, AK's biggest fan on this site. I have to agree with Cy who said we tend to think of what AK could've been. He was a crazy good defender, but those were in his early years. He peaked early and then regressed and lost a lot of his quickness. He had a lot of trouble guarding guys on the perimeter from midway to later in his career. I didn't look at the link but I remember that game when he shut down Kobe and it was in his second or third year. But AK never became a good offensive player; he was streaky at times but he never could become a consistent shooter. He actually regressed as a shooter and at one point, when he seemed to have lost his confidence, he was almost as bad as Gobert is now on offense, but he sure could dunk and he was fabulous in the open court.

Hayward is a better all-around player. AK used to turn the ball over all the time. Hayward can shoot and has an assortment of offensive moves. AK could dunk and had a spin move and that was about it -- he was very inconsistent from 3. No Hayward will never be nearly as good on defense as AK in his prime but he is a good defender and great at protecting the rim in the open court. However, he is light years better on offense.

AK could've been one of the all-time great defenders if he bit the bullet and focused on that instead of getting pissed that Jerry took him out of the offense and didn't worry about getting his points. He probably could've been a better shooter too, if he worked harder. He could've been a Hall of Famer but it didn't turn out that way. Believe me, I was as disappointed with him as any of his fans.
 
Diamond77 said:
Kirilenko was a unique talent! Hayward is averaging better offensive numbers but for me AK was a more complete player than Hayward!

Offensive stats do not tell the whole story...AK was helping the team to win games even without scoring!

AK was on the on short list of "LeBron stoppers" and he was able to limit offensively players like Bryant, Anthony, Pau Gasol and Nowitzki as well! Hayward is an overrated defender.

Hayward is a better scorer than Kirilenko but for me AK was the superior overall player.
By the way let's not forget the Jazz won the 2007 playoffs Conference Semifinal against Golden State thanks to AK offense!

Andrei game was so much fun to watch! He gave us many emotions, let's not be ungrateful!
Click to expand...
I'll put the theory of AK being the more complete player to bed. First offense can't even be argued. AK got tons of steals and blocks, but sacrificed position defense to do so. Blocks and steals don't automatically transition into great defense. I forget who posted this, but someone even stated that AK was a better defender then Gobert because Gobert hadn't had a 10 block game yet. It's much easier to get blocks when u come over from the weak side as the offensive player isn't expecting it where as Gobert isn't surprising anyone as he patrols the paint, so players adjust to the fact they know he's there. AK gave up as much points as he also stopped. Hayward is the far superior man defender I remember there was a game last year where they showed a graphic where he gave up the second least points to sf's. Where AK sacrificed his position defense for his numbers, Hayward sacrificed individual numbers to keep his man from scoring. I'll take the better position defense over the greater blocks and steals numbers every time.


AK was a very good player, and his potential was through the roof. Could he have become better then Hayward? Yes, but all AK ever was, was potential. In the end he was satisfied with getting paid. AK on the current Jazz team is the fourth option if u take favors off the team. With Favors he's on the bench. In the end he wasted a ton of talent.
 
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