White House Discord: Bob Woodward Book, NYT Op-Ed

[Stoked]

At this point I think assigning blame is a useless excercise. I see no real value in determining who robbed me 1,000 times versus who robbed me 900 times. For example.

As for the Rs, to hell with them. I have no confidence in them to do the right thing. But I really have to faith in the Ds either. I’m not letting Trump make me lose sight of that.

Again, Trump is trash. This is not negating his trashness. It’s looking beyond Trump at a longer picture. He absolutely deserves ridicule. And I think he will end up impeached.

 

[LogGrad98]

The babe(ie; tinfoil) part of me still thinks Bannon's involved, and donnie axing him was fabricated.

What question did he ax him?

 

[Harambe]

What question did he ax him?

Wrong ax.. this was in context of "letting him go", firing him, informing him his services are no longer required.

But while we're on the subject, can I ax u bout mudkips?

 

[Stars Fan]

At this point I think assigning blame is a useless excercise. I see no real value in determining who robbed me 1,000 times versus who robbed me 900 times. For example.

As for the Rs, to hell with them. I have no confidence in them to do the right thing. But I really have to faith in the Ds either. I’m not letting Trump make me lose sight of that.

Again, Trump is trash. This is not negating his trashness. It’s looking beyond Trump at a longer picture. He absolutely deserves ridicule. And I think he will end up impeached.

I hear you. It is easy to lose faith in the system. However, doing so just leaves us open to more of the same Manipulation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LogGrad98]

At this point I think assigning blame is a useless excercise. I see no real value in determining who robbed me 1,000 times versus who robbed me 900 times. For example.

As for the Rs, to hell with them. I have no confidence in them to do the right thing. But I really have to faith in the Ds either. I’m not letting Trump make me lose sight of that.

Again, Trump is trash. This is not negating his trashness. It’s looking beyond Trump at a longer picture. He absolutely deserves ridicule. And I think he will end up impeached.

See the problem is you are trying to float reason in an acid ocean of unreason. It cannot survive. Don't you know that the only possible way to exist is in a full-on dichotomy? You are either for us (pick a side), or against us. Period. You cannot have it both ways, there is no middle. If I detect the slightest variance from my version of the truth, you are automatically a dissident and rabid believe in the "other" side, and need to be exterminated. Get out of here with your reason and logic and imaginary moderateness. That is no longer allowed!

You are either a card-carrying, dyed-in-the-wool "savior of all mankind" adherent of the democrat religion, or you are a Trump-lover that wants nothing more than to pleasure Trump and his family in any way they desire. You cannot be against Trump and disagree with even any iota of the democrat agenda. That is just, I mean...what...does not compute....gaahhhh....brain....explod......uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[LogGrad98]

This is not about their agenda. If Trump goes Pence becomes President. Agenda is largely the same. I think the Republican establishment is terrified of the backlash that would come from Trump's base if they were complicit in his ouster.

Agreed. Still given that as an option, I would opt for Pence. Of course, that is the devil we do not know, and it might be worse. My bet is it would at least be marginally better.

 

[Gameface]

Agreed. Still given that as an option, I would opt for Pence. Of course, that is the devil we do not know, and it might be worse. My bet is it would at least be marginally better.

I'd bet that Pence at least knows how to operate an administration.

 

[JazzGal]

Pence would likely be more skilled at getting things done that I do not want to see get done. At least Trump's bumbling prevents some of the things I fear. But his bumbling also hides of a lot of things that are getting done (like the climate regulation rollbacks) that might actually concern more people if they were more widely reported.

 

[JazzGal]

I was thinking earlier today about the claims that aides remove things from Trump's reach and hopes he forgets about them, how they try to reign in his worst impulses. For a brief moment, I thought it might be useful for his worst impulses to be let loose so even his base could see how incompetent he is. But I realized that too many people would likely die. So much for that idea.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Ugh, with the way things are trending worse and worse how long into the next presidents term before someone accuses him of eating a baby, being a serial rapist or one of the 4 horsemen or some ****.

That's a legit concern. Some people hate the current president so much that they think embellishing every accusation is justified. They are truly deranged and can't see that their insanity is fueling the fire. It's going to take a miracle to save us. Fortunately, I believe in miracles.

I’m not acting like it’s just because at all. I’ve openly derided him.

I am saying that now that the presidence of this level of opposition has been set by him being garbage that it only gets worse from here.

If the Ds lose they will froth at the mouth over the party that supported Donald...

If the Rs lose they will use the way Trump was treated as justification.

Trump actually deserving constant ridicule has only accelerated this cycle imo.

Only questions I have are when is enough truly enough? When do people refuse to go along anymore? Then what?

I'm in complete agreement. As a conservative I realize that my take on how we got here is completely different from what most liberals believe is going on. I wish that sanity could prevail and that people could talk to one another in an honest effort to understand why we are where we are, and then to find a way to middle ground. Reacting with extremism is not working.

 

[babe]

Lol what a bunch of nonsense. I don't need Woodward or anyone to tell me that Trump is unbalanced and should be removed from office. Nixon lied through his teeth and used his position to cover it up. The right always makes up excuses when facts come out about their guys by claiming the Democrats are more corrupt without any proof. Conspiracy theories are not facts. Either the right is too dumb to catch the Democrats or there isn't anything there. Obama's weaponizing federal agencies.. what does that even mean? Sounds like you are one of the people who believed Obama was going to send federal troops to Texas which turned out to be right-winged conspiracy nonsense.

When I go out into my fields and preach Jesus to my cows, they are at least polite about it. Dunno….. chewing on your cud and looking thoughtful can be really charming.


I realize we have some Jazz fans here who do listen to CNN and have great faith in a slice of our popular culture. My fav radio gal Sonnie Johnson has been predicting a socialist/democrat tide rising for some time, particularly in our young and impressionable folks and college indoctrinaires.

Paint a pretty picture and imagine..... listen to a song and imagine..... smoke some weed and imagine. Things will be great with a whole new world.

But really, cowhide, please research your ideas a bit.

The charge of Obama "weaponizing" federal agencies means purposefully loading the agencies with like-minded folks.... he's a pretty good "community organizer", some say. Some say Bush did the same thing, though not so effectively. This is equivalent to "Loading" a weapon.... a gun, a cannon, a missile.... a plane with bombs.... something like that.

Then, after checking our the reliability of the people you've put in place, you find some channel of passing instructions..... say to the IRS: audit the wacko right wingnuts and R candidates.... check out their compliance exhaustively and sorta edge them outta the race...… This is exactly what happened a few years ago. And nobody cared to call it criminal.

It helps when you can get your FBI to plant some mics in the congressional offices or get their email and follow all their efforts in their office...… Also.... It is what happened under Obama.

And if you have some nuisance journalists saying stuff that doesn't help, well.... the FBI can do something about that too. Spy on the press and then lean on offending reporters a bit. It really helps cut down the noise. This also was done by Obama and his pitt bull federal agents...… And yes, all of these are criminal offenses violating US law, and whaddya know, with Hillary posed to swoop in and make it all ordinary business wouldn't you believe it.... a whole lot of folks just started taking that as the new normal.

So, really, it was nothing special to do similar crimes in getting Trump's campaign spied on.

I think Trump has been pretty clear messaging to the Press that he's not just stupid. But he has done nothing illegal or criminal or that amounted to "weaponizing" the federal agencies.

I believe he decided not to prosecute his enemies because he realized how and why it just wouldn't work. He actually doesn't care what his opponents do or say except just to say the plain fact that his opposition isn't reasonable or right in what they're doing.

Look, I don't see anyone in this site who is going to listen to me, so I should just go out and preach to my damn cows.

 

[Red]

It's very easy for me to loath Trump. From the day he announced, and then denounced Mexicans, I thought I recognized a demagogue. Almost nothing he has said or done has eased my concerns. But my father taught me early on to always remember, when judging others, that "there but for the grace of God goes I". So, loathing his character issues, and the quote I left earlier regarding the fact that he never appeals to the better angels in his fellow citizens, but only the baser instincts, summarizes those issues succinctly, is not enough to translate loathing what he represents into outright hatred of the man as a human being.

Further, am I to assume, that if I find Woodward and his book's interpretation to be an accurate portrait of concern among his subordinates, that I am therefore "deranged", or afflicted with "insanity"? Why is a deep concern for the democratic institutions of my country a form of hatred and insanity? Why is it not instead the concern of someone who is familiar with his nation's' history, on the one hand, and worry and concern of what happens when a demagogue assumes power in a nation on the other hand?

And what exactly is a middle ground where Trump is concerned?

If we look back at our history, we can find some corrupt administrations. History judges them to be so. Yet, at the time, there were no doubt members of the party in question who supported a corrupt administration simply because it was controlled by their party. And there would have been citizens who supported that administration, for any number of reasons. It represented their party, they did not believe the corruption allegations, they supported its policies otherwise, etc. Others would have seen right through the charade and opposed said president, or even opposed them simply for tribal reasons.

So now, at this time in America's history, I don't know how I approach Trump other then loathing the character defects that has led to no effort on his part to inspire our higher angels, as well as opposition to his treatment of minorities, his treatment of "others", of scapegoats that every demagogue uses to channel fear and anger. I don't know how I find a middle ground that does not involve hoping for this man's removal from office. And I don't find it insane to see Woodward's book as a baseline to understanding the interior workings of his administration. I believe Woodward, I do not believe Trump. That does not make me insane.

Rather then hate the man outright, or froth with insanity, I can very easily see him as a tragic figure. He seems extraordinarily insecure. He seems narcissistic to a dangerous degree. But he is a human being. I can see all this as the story of a tragic figure. It goes right back to that core lesson my father taught me when judging others. That does not mean I can just look the other way. But it does mean that seeing him as a tragic human makes it difficult to hate him, much easier to pity him. And it does not mean then I am insane for being concerned with the fate of our democratic institutions. His inclination is to make the Dept of Justice beholden to him, not the protection of our constitution. That makes him dangerous in my estimation.

But, that's how I approach this moment in our history. I can't speak for anyone other then myself. I do know that the concerns I have felt from the start, seemingly confirmed by Trump's words, actions, and the portrait emerging from Woodward's book were not predicated by first deciding I hated Trump, and then I went out to find reasons to justify my hatred. We've had bad administrations in our history. This is another such administration, from what I can see. Labeling people opposed to Trump as "deranged" seems like an impossible path to a hypothetical middle ground.