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White Privilege VS POC Disadvantage

C

checkbookdoc

Well-Known Member
I believe the term "white privilege" is counter productive to race relations as it has a negative/accusatory tone and many people think it suggests whites are being granted something that should be taken away from them. However, it seems to me that the issue is actually the opposite, that people of color (POC) are being discriminated against and not provided things they have a right to (i.e., we want to lift everyone up, not drag whites down). Therefore, to me a more appropriate term would be "POC disadvantage".

1) Do you agree that the term white privilege is antagonistic?
2) Would it be appropriate to replace the term white privilege with POC disadvantage? If not why not?
 
That said, and this has likely been mentioned on here, pissing off whites with WP might be its’ origin’s intent and more productive. Whites “hear” that term more and it thus demands their attention and more discussion.
 
I think that we should focus on individuals, not lump people into groups. IMO it harms minorities to suggest that their life challenges are the result of skin color. For some people it can have the effect of giving them an excuse not to excel. When I listen to Kamala Harris describe her childhood it sounds surprisingly similar to mine, except that each time an obstacle arises she tends to attribute it to racism. The good thing for her and me is that we both overcame all sorts of challenges, because challenges are most often (especially in retrospect) a very good thing to have.
 
It would be more accurate to say that someone is "advantaged," rather than "privileged." However, the main issue with the concept of "white privilege" is that people who are socio-economically successful have numerous factors contributing to their success, and the color of their skin is really a lesser factor, if any at all. For example, people who are successful are very likely to:

1) have higher-than-average IQs
2) have two parents in the household and a stable family environment
3) defer gratification and go to school for 4 years, rather than drop out
4) not have children out of wedlock
5) have access to adequate nutrition
Etc.

Any person, regardless of race or nationality, is more likely to be successful due to the above factors, regardless of the color of their skin.

Now it is true that, on average, people who are white may be more successful economically (assuming that's what they aspire to be) than some people of color. However, it is misleading to suggest that there is a direct causal link--i.e., the person is successful BECAUSE they have white skin. It would be fair, in many cases, to say there is a correlation though--i.e. people with white skin often become more successful.

That's the difference between correlation and causation.

If we're going to nitpick, however, data shows that it's Asians who are most successful, on average. Now that may be, in part, because Asians who immigrate to North America and Europe are some of the most academically successful people from their home countries. Hence, there's a self-selection or weed-out process that creates bias in the sample population.

Not to say structured inequality shouldn't be looked at. It should. However, making a generalization about a population based solely on the color of their skin is rarely productive. People within their racial/ethnic group often have some similarities, but those similarities are limited. Simply put, people with in a large group are not all the same, and oftentimes aren't even all that similar.
 
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checkbookdoc said:
1) Do you agree that the term white privilege is antagonistic?
2) Would it be appropriate to replace the term white privilege with POC disadvantage? If not why not?
Click to expand...

To my understanding, privilege refers not to preferential treatment specifically, but to the need to not consider the effects of the differential treatment in your life. I think it's a fair and reasonable term to be used in that context.

However, many people will hear a term ad use it in other contexts, where is was not intended. In those contexts, it is a poor fit.
 
No matter what term you use, I believe that many white people will be upset by the idea that they have advantages and privileges that POC do not. “The key to moving forward is what we do with our discomfort. We can use it as a door out—blame the messenger and disregard the message. Or we can use it as a door in by asking, Why does this unsettle me? What would it mean for me if this were true?” (Robin DiAngelo in "White Fragility")

“For those of us who work to raise the racial consciousness of whites, simply getting whites to acknowledge that our race gives us advantages is a major effort. The defensiveness, denial, and resistance are deep.” (Robin DiAngelo in "White Fragility")

“While implicit bias is always at play because all humans have bias, inequity can occur simply through homogeneity; if I am not aware of the barriers you face, then I won’t see them, much less be motivated to remove them. Nor will I be motivated to remove the barriers if they provide an advantage to which I feel entitled.” (Robin DiAngelo in "White Fragility")

I recently read something that gave me pause. Do you realize that all rights in this country have only been given because white men decided to give them? Women only receive rights when white men decide to give them. Minorities only receive rights when white men decide to give them. No one else has the power to grant rights to anyone, on a national or state level at least. Yet whites are not privileged?
 
We are all privileged in one way or another. There are kids that's have never eaten a decent meal or had a filtered drink of water. There are people that will get stoned for speaking out of turn. There are people that can barely eat all so we can eat a damn Hershey's bar.

As far as being white, I have my advantages, but what does anybody expect me to do about it? It's not like I'm so privileged that I don't have my own everyday struggles. I have to struggle to make ends meet myself a lot of the time. To me the best I can do is just be a good human being to everyone.

The one thing that gets me about it is that any single person is more than qualified to live my life. Anybody(mostly) can work 40+ hours a week, pay bills, put food on the table. Telling people they can't do this because the are a minority is oppressive and downright wrong. Humans are capable of nearly anything we want if we just put our minds to it and grind. Some may have it harder but instead of putting doubts of not being privileged enough into their heads it should be that they're better than those holding them back. That they can overcome it.
 
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JazzGal said:
I recently read something that gave me pause. Do you realize that all rights in this country have only been given because white men decided to give them? Women only receive rights when white men decide to give them. Minorities only receive rights when white men decide to give them. No one else has the power to grant rights to anyone, on a national or state level at least. Yet whites are not privileged?
Click to expand...

It was Congress that gave women and blacks the right to vote. See the difference? Today, there are more women and people of color in Congress than ever before. It is a logical fallacy to say that because I'm white, I have the power to bestow upon people their right to vote. Clearly, I don't.

Now that said, there are a number of aspects of society -- language, science, math, philosophy, theories of economics, law, civics and government, business practices, religions, arts & cultural traditions, etc. that have been inherited from the cultures of the Europeans who colonized this continent. This can naturally create a bias in favor of the people from these cultural traditions--due simply to their familiarity with it, if nothing else. However, calling this "white privilege" is so vague and obtuse that it doesn't accomplish anything other than to stir up broad racial tensions.

Start by talking about "European cultural heritage and biases" and then debate them one by one, if you want to have a meaningful discussion.

Yes, this country and it's system of government were founded predominantly by men of European descent, but they created a system of government that is supposed to accommodate and represent the people that it serves. If the system is working properly, those people have a voice in it.

And if, by virtue of my being a white male, you still associate me with the people who founded this Republic and finally gave all people the right to vote, then I guess all I can say is, "You're welcome. Sorry it took so long."
 
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JazzyFresh said:
We are all privileged in one way or another. There are kids that's have never eaten a decent meal or had a filtered drink of water. There are people that will get stoned for speaking out of turn. There are people that can barely eat all so we can eat a damn Hershey's bar.

As far as being white, I have my advantages, but what does anybody expect me to do about it? It's not like I'm so privileged that I don't have my own everyday struggles. I have to struggle to make ends meet myself a lot of the time. To me the best I can do is just be a good human being to everyone.

The one thing that gets me about it is that any single person is more than qualified to live my life. Anybody(mostly) can work 40+ hours a week, pay bills, put food on the table. Telling people they can't do this because the are a minority is oppressive and downright wrong. Humans are capable of nearly anything we want if we just put our minds to it and grind. Some may have it harder but instead of putting doubts of not being privileged enough into their heads it should be that they're better than those holding them back. That they can overcome it.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the problem. White people take the idea of privilege and make it an individual thing (my life is hard; if I can do it anyone can do it, etc). It isn't about you and your life. It is systemic.

And no one is claiming that there are not other forms of prejudices and hardships. But why do white people get upset about this one in particular? It's not a personal failing by having benefited from a system that is in place.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Catchall said:
It was Congress that gave women and blacks the right to vote. See the difference? Today, there are more women and people of color in Congress than ever before. It is a logical fallacy to say that because I'm white, I have the power to bestow upon people their right to vote. Clearly, I don't.

Now that said, there are a number of aspects of society -- language, science, math, philosophy, theories of economics, law, civics and government, business practices, religions, arts & cultural traditions, etc. that have been inherited from the cultures of the Europeans who colonized this continent. This can naturally create a bias in favor of the people from these cultural traditions--due simply to their familiarity with it, if nothing else. However, calling this "white privilege" is so vague and obtuse that it doesn't accomplish anything other than to stir up broad racial tensions.

Start by talking about "European cultural heritage and biases" and then debate them one by one, if you want to have a meaningful discussion.

Yes, this country and it's system of government were founded predominantly by men of European descent, but they created a system of government that is supposed to accommodate and represent the people that it serves. If the system is working properly, those people have a voice in it.

And if, by virtue of my being a white male, you still associate me with the people who founded this Republic and finally gave all people the right to vote, then I guess all I can say is, "You're welcome. Sorry it took so long."
Click to expand...
There are not enough women or POC in Congress to pass anything on their own. It still is a white man's game.

The definition of white privilege shouldn't be vague and obtuse if people actually learn a little history and interact with POC. "Inherent advantages possessed by a white person on the basis of their race in a society characterized by racial inequality and injustice" is not really a difficult concept.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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JazzGal said:
This is exactly the problem. White people take the idea of privilege and make it an individual thing (my life is hard; if I can do it anyone can do it, etc). It isn't about you and your life. It is systemic.

And no one is claiming that there are not other forms of prejudices and hardships. But why do white people get upset about this one in particular? It's not a personal failing by having benefited from a system that is in place.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...
It's systematic because people are telling others they are not capable because they have no privilege. My entire point is that they are plenty capable. Every single person is capable.

Again I admit I'm privileged. You admit it. Now what? What just changed? Absolutely nothing.
 
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