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Whiteside Is Going to Be Good

NAOS said:
due to Rudy's rotation, Hassan is playing something like half of his minutes against opposing starters.
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If you think about it, this means both he and Rudy should have improved performance and even more dominance, since they are both starting caliber players playing half their time against bench players. Nothing but good stuff there.
 
candrew said:
The thing I like about Whiteside is, in between arguments with refs and tiffs with players on the opposing teams, he really seems to be enjoying himself out there.

Kind of like Jae Crowder and Trevor Booker.

As well he should - he's a starting caliber C player against (mainly) role players - this is his place to dominate.
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This is where our bench should be the deepest and most potent in the league, at least on paper. We can field 4 legit starting caliber players: Ingles, Clarkson, Gay, and Whiteside. If Forrest can be reasonably efficient or if we can get Butler to a point where he can contribute as a rotation guy this would round this group out. We should be dominating most other teams' benches, and hell even holding our own when they mix starters in. As this team comes together we have the potential to be the most dangerous team in the league.


That is, if we can learn to hit a single ****ing shot. Good hell the shooting has been terrible so far this season. I hope each and every one of these guys are eating, showering, walking, relaxing, and sleeping with the new ball so that excuse goes away sooner rather than later.
 
LogGrad98 said:
This is where our bench should be the deepest and most potent in the league, at least on paper. We can field 4 legit starting caliber players: Ingles, Clarkson, Gay, and Whiteside. If Forrest can be reasonably efficient or if we can get Butler to a point where he can contribute as a rotation guy this would round this group out. We should be dominating most other teams' benches, and hell even holding our own when they mix starters in. As this team comes together we have the potential to be the most dangerous team in the league.


That is, if we can learn to hit a single ****ing shot. Good hell the shooting has been terrible so far this season. I hope each and every one of these guys are eating, showering, walking, relaxing, and sleeping with the new ball so that excuse goes away sooner rather than later.
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I really don’t see why Butler can’t be Neto. Preseason is preseason, but if he’s a small fraction of that then he’s Neto.

The frustrating thing is that we have this expectation that there are blowouts where we can coast and get other guys minutes, but that has never seemed to be the case. If we’re forcing Forrest into some PT with Conley playing, we instead need to do that for Butler.
 
infection said:
I really don’t see why Butler can’t be Neto. Preseason is preseason, but if he’s a small fraction of that then he’s Neto.

The frustrating thing is that we have this expectation that there are blowouts where we can coast and get other guys minutes, but that has never seemed to be the case. If we’re forcing Forrest into some PT with Conley playing, we instead need to do that for Butler.
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I think the blowouts will come. Right now we are struggling with shooting, and at least on some level in incorporating the new guys and working through new rotations. Things are not flowing yet. No or very little practice time so far hasn't helped matters. We also need to solve some other issues that will be common themes this season, such as who steps up when Conley is out. I think after this homestand we will see the team really start to take off. I think we will lose a few more than we would like initially, but when we hit our stride I would not be surprised to see us break the Jazz record for most wins in a row, which I believe is 15, and notch multiple double-digit win streaks. I think we still end in the top 3 in the west with a very good shot at the top spot.

And I agree about Butler. I hope spending a few weeks in the G-league helps him get whatever Quin thinks he is missing so Quin will give him some minutes for real. The kid could be a real breakout for us, if given a chance.
 
infection said:
I really don’t see why Butler can’t be Neto. Preseason is preseason, but if he’s a small fraction of that then he’s Neto.

The frustrating thing is that we have this expectation that there are blowouts where we can coast and get other guys minutes, but that has never seemed to be the case. If we’re forcing Forrest into some PT with Conley playing, we instead need to do that for Butler.
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Wasn’t he like top 3 in scoring in the preseason? He doesn’t need the g league. He needs longer than 2 minute stints and to be given a little leash. His defense is fine… his offense will come.

Look at Forrests usage. Makes Royce look like Luka. As a primary ball handler you can’t have someone that is a complete non threat. He’s fine as a super cheap injury replacement guy but until he figures something out on offense his defense is good but not so good it warrants playing time.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Wasn’t he like top 3 in scoring in the preseason? He doesn’t need the g league. He needs longer than 2 minute stints and to be given a little leash. His defense is fine… his offense will come.

Look at Forrests usage. Makes Royce look like Luka. As a primary ball handler you can’t have someone that is a complete non threat. He’s fine as a super cheap injury replacement guy but until he figures something out on offense his defense is good but not so good it warrants playing time.
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We need to throw him in (first) as a spot up shooter and evaluate him based on that. Let Ingles, DM, or Mike run things.
 
Forrest is on a two-way, right? So there wouldn’t be any reports generated for when he dips in and out of the Stars practices and/or games?

My guess is that Forrest is on the same schedule as Butler right now: back and forth when the home-heavy schedule allows for more practice time.

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I like a lot of what I’m seeing from Forrest. Yes, he’s deferring way too much; and, yes, he needs to change that. But Butler has his own list of things to work on that is at least one item long.
 
NAOS said:
Forrest is on a two-way, right? So there wouldn’t be any reports generated for when he dips in and out of the Stars practices and/or games?

My guess is that Forrest is on the same schedule as Butler right now: back and forth when the home-heavy schedule allows for more practice time.

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I like a lot of what I’m seeing from Forrest. Yes, he’s deferring way too much; and, yes, he needs to change that. But Butler has his own list of things to work on that is at least one item long.
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Not sure.

It isn’t necessarily what Forrest is bringing that is my issue. I think he’s fine. It’s what I think Butler could bring this year by year and me and next year. It’s an investment. Evaluating him based on 2 minute stints is insane. Guys barely catch their breathe… When Conleys out the guy needs 15 minutes to cook. He will make mistakes but that investment will pay off a lot down the road. I just think Forrest is what he is… not to say he will never get better I just think his ceiling is a lot lower but he’s viewed as more functional right now.

Like if you want the Terrence Mann payoff you need to invest the time during the year. If Butler continues to struggle with his shot then I think you can always go back to Forrest and he will give you what he has. I just don’t think investing those minutes in Forrest help I’m a whole lot… he’s being rewarded time for not trying anything.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Not sure.

It isn’t necessarily what Forrest is bringing that is my issue. I think he’s fine. It’s what I think Butler could bring this year by year and me and next year. It’s an investment. Evaluating him based on 2 minute stints is insane. Guys barely catch their breathe… When Conleys out the guy needs 15 minutes to cook. He will make mistakes but that investment will pay off a lot down the road. I just think Forrest is what he is… not to say he will never get better I just think his ceiling is a lot lower but he’s viewed as more functional right now.

Like if you want the Terrence Mann payoff you need to invest the time during the year. If Butler continues to struggle with his shot then I think you can always go back to Forrest and he will give you what he has. I just don’t think investing those minutes in Forrest help I’m a whole lot… he’s being rewarded time for not trying anything.
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You know how I feel about using the regular season to install extra options/schemas. We need to do a lot more of that. And I agree that Butler has the higher ceiling, and could be an important option for us by the playoffs.

When I look at our travel-heavy schedule so far, and appreciate how little time there’s been to practice, then I think there’s too little to go on in terms of evaluating the org’s commitment to Butler’s development THIS YEAR. This was simply never going to be the best stretch for him. If we’re still seeing the same **** 20 games from now, then I’ll join anyone who’s wringing their hands. And if we haven’t seen some small-ball experiments with Gay by then, then that issue will raise way to the top of my worries as far as schema development goes (Butler would be #2, fwiw).
 
I see a lot of value in Forrest as a situational perimeter defender that we all know we need. If you focus only on what’s likely to happen this year, then Forrest’s ceiling—in this aspect of the game—is higher than Butler’s.

In sum, Forrest needs burn, too.
 
NAOS said:
I see a lot of value in Forrest as a situational perimeter defender that we all know we need. If you focus only on what’s likely to happen this year, then Forrest’s ceiling—in this aspect of the game—is higher than Butler’s.

In sum, Forrest needs burn, too.
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. My side issue is that if we wanted to get a dynamic wing defender that is an offensive zero there are and we’re better options than Forrest. I hate seeing what Gary Payton is doing for the Warriors and them looking like they were crazy smart… dude was playing great defense and leading the league in deflections. It’s dumb that 29 other teams couldn’t find any use for that. I don’t think Forrest is at that level as a defender. I think you could go grab Arcidiacano in the G league and he is likely a better version (at least this year) of Forrest. Dunn , if healthy, is another one. Shaq is in the g league too. I’m likely selling Forrest short but he seems to get rewarded for not trying stuff and Butler being benched for trying stuff and having it not work. It’s not a great recipe for development or role player success.

So whoever you pick Quin give them some damn leash and don’t have them playing scared. Pretend they are JC if you have to.
 
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