Why are the Spurs on pace to win 72 games, yet the Jazz are floundering again?

[freakazoid]

It is funny to see haters like zman bitching about Sloan in the middle of a good season. The Jazz have actually been overachieving these last 2 seasons. And this year, they have just one star and a bunch of other guys who look like just very good role players on most nights and they keep winning games.

Yeah yeah, we get it. Sloan lost to MJ twice. So what are we going to do about it?Nothing. Get the **** over it. For the kind of players we have had these past few years I cant imagine a better coach for this team. Maybe Popovich. Thats about it. It is'nt so bad to have the second or third best coach in the league coaching your team, you know. Unless otherwise you are a hater of course. There just is'nt a long list of coaches who would have come to the Jazz and won it all with the players we had.

But then keep bitching. It provided for some entertainment.

As a rabid VJ hater, all I can say is VJ is right, and Sloan is a GOD.

All hail VJ.

 

[LogGrad98]

Did you know Frank Layden stepped down as head coach in mid-season. How many coaches in the past 25 years have taken over a team in midseason and have advanced to the Western Conference Semifinals?
In Sloan's first 3 FULL seasons as head coach, the Jazz went from first-round, to 2nd-round, to the conference finals. Then the Jazz took a "step back" following that season - largely due to Mark Eaton's back giving out, before rebounding w/another trip to the conference finals.

I am not trolling or being sarcastic, but can you (or anyone) name a head coach who had 2 HALL-OF-FAMERS (not just good players, or all-stars, or first teamers, but HOF'ers) on their team for longer than 2 seasons who did not win at least one championship? I didn't look it up but I can't think of one, besides Sloan. I would be curious to know.

 

[freakazoid]

I am not trolling or being sarcastic, but can you (or anyone) name a head coach who had 2 HALL-OF-FAMERS (not just good players, or all-stars, or first teamers, but HO
F'ers) on their team for longer than 2 seasons who did not win at least one championship? I didn't look it up but I can't think of one, besides Sloan.

Good point.

Also, Can you name any player named CJ who DOESN'T suck?

Not me, I hate CJ.


Utah should trade.

I will be proven gene yus.

 

[gregbroncs]

As I said in my previous post, I concede that we lost it to the greatest player to ever play the game...ok fine there point taken.

Now explain why Sloan was unable to get us there the other 16 years we had 2 HOF'ers on our team?

He did not in any year have the most talented team. Maybe they should have won it the years that MJ retired but I still don't believe they had the most talent that year either.

 

[LogGrad98]

He did not in any year have the most talented team. Maybe they should have won it the years that MJ retired but I still don't believe they had the most talent that year either.

I agree, we did not have the most talented teams. But again that lies at least in part with Sloan. We have heard many times players who don't want to play for Sloan (that was what came out of the infamous "YOU go play in Utah" quote, if you remember). Also, we all know in this organization that Sloan has as much input as KOC in determining who to pick in the draft, who to go after in free agency, who to keep and who to let go.

I am not saying that Sloan is the entire reason for all our woes, but I think his time has run its course. I couldn't tell you who to bring in, but I think it is time for some new blood. How about Hornacek?

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Getting back to the here and now: The Jazz may not be in that bad of a position.

First of all, the Spurs are not going to win 70 games. They're only getting older and while they've been healty all season long it's still early. Sooner or later some of they're major cogs are going to start missing time. Book it. Not to mention the favorable early schedule. Now don't get me wrong, Pop is better than Sloan but you can't run away from father time, and I think he gets the Spurs in the end.

Dallas has an aging Dirk who has already missed time this season. Now with Butler out for the year Dallas looks much more human than a couple of weeks ago. Is Dirk healthy enough to shake of the nagging injuries and carry the extra burden with Butler out? My guess is no.

The Lakers are having a strange year. Multiple losing streaks, grumblings from the locker room, etc. It really seems as if they are ripe for the taking.

Of course I'm looking at this from the point of view of everything breaking right for Utah, but they're younger than any of the other 3 teams. I think that gives them the best chance of staying healthy as the season progresses. And while Utah has started off the season pretty good, I think it's obvious that this team has yet to really gel. Looking at it that way, Utah has played their way into the 3 seed without even coming close to playing their best ball.

Even though I'm clearly a Jazz homer, I still think it's fair to say that Utah has the highest ceiling of improvement between now and the end of the season when compared with the Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

 

[memo is money]

Getting back to the here and now: The Jazz may not be in that bad of a position.

First of all, the Spurs are not going to win 70 games. They're only getting older and while they've been healty all season long it's still early. Sooner or later some of they're major cogs are going to start missing time. Book it. Not to mention the favorable early schedule. Now don't get me wrong, Pop is better than Sloan but you can't run away from father time, and I think he gets the Spurs in the end.

Dallas has an aging Dirk who has already missed time this season. Now with Butler out for the year Dallas looks much more human than a couple of weeks ago. Is Dirk healthy enough to shake of the nagging injuries and carry the extra burden with Butler out? My guess is no.

The Lakers are having a strange year. Multiple losing streaks, grumblings from the locker room, etc. It really seems as if they are ripe for the taking.

Of course I'm looking at this from the point of view of everything breaking right for Utah, but they're younger than any of the other 3 teams. I think that gives them the best chance of staying healthy as the season progresses. And while Utah has started off the season pretty good, I think it's obvious that this team has yet to really gel. Looking at it that way, Utah has played their way into the 3 seed without even coming close to playing their best ball.

Even though I'm clearly a Jazz homer, I still think it's fair to say that Utah has the highest ceiling of improvement between now and the end of the season when compared with the Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

could not agree more. right on the money...

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Getting back to the here and now: The Jazz may not be in that bad of a position.

First of all, the Spurs are not going to win 70 games. They're only getting older and while they've been healty all season long it's still early. Sooner or later some of they're major cogs are going to start missing time. Book it. Not to mention the favorable early schedule. Now don't get me wrong, Pop is better than Sloan but you can't run away from father time, and I think he gets the Spurs in the end.

Dallas has an aging Dirk who has already missed time this season. Now with Butler out for the year Dallas looks much more human than a couple of weeks ago. Is Dirk healthy enough to shake of the nagging injuries and carry the extra burden with Butler out? My guess is no.

The Lakers are having a strange year. Multiple losing streaks, grumblings from the locker room, etc. It really seems as if they are ripe for the taking.

Of course I'm looking at this from the point of view of everything breaking right for Utah, but they're younger than any of the other 3 teams. I think that gives them the best chance of staying healthy as the season progresses. And while Utah has started off the season pretty good, I think it's obvious that this team has yet to really gel. Looking at it that way, Utah has played their way into the 3 seed without even coming close to playing their best ball.

Even though I'm clearly a Jazz homer, I still think it's fair to say that Utah has the highest ceiling of improvement between now and the end of the season when compared with the Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

I agree though I think this year will be tough to beat out all those teams and a few in the Eastern Conference for the title. I would say the next two years though look more promising as Kobe, Artest, Duncan, Ginobili, Dirk and Co. become even older and we progress more. Hopefully.

That said, we can't bank on these teams fading away into oblivion. While they might some, we also need to improve. For me, Jefferson needs to improve the most. He needs to drastically improve his conditioning and fitness and come in like a beast next season, rebounding like he use to, elevating our frontcourt to another level, and giving us perhaps a more legit 2nd fiddle player. We also need the youngs like Miles, Hayward, and hopefully Fes if he's retained to improve. If this can all happen, and I actually think it can, I think we have a shot over the next five years to get a ring. Then, again, by that time, the Heat and Magic could become too formidable. Perhaps even OKC.

 

[LogGrad98]

I agree though I think this year will be tough to beat out all those teams and a few in the Eastern Conference for the title. I would say the next two years though look more promising as Kobe, Artest, Duncan, Ginobili, Dirk and Co. become even older and we progress more. Hopefully.

That said, we can't bank on these teams fading away into oblivion. While they might some, we also need to improve. For me, Jefferson needs to improve the most. He needs to drastically improve his conditioning and fitness and come in like a beast next season, rebounding like he use to, elevating our frontcourt to another level, and giving us perhaps a more legit 2nd fiddle player. We also need the youngs like Miles, Hayward, and hopefully Fes if he's retained to improve. If this can all happen, and I actually think it can, I think we have a shot over the next five years to get a ring. Then, again, by that time, the Heat and Magic could become too formidable. Perhaps even OKC.

Well said. I think this is exactly the point many of us have been arguing (in bold above). We need to improve to compete. I do not think "internal" improvement is enough, but it is something. Here is to hoping that something will develop and we get there in the next few years.

 

[vslice02]

For me, Jefferson needs to improve the most. He needs to drastically improve his conditioning and fitness and come in like a beast next season, rebounding like he use to, elevating our frontcourt to another level, and giving us perhaps a more legit 2nd fiddle player.

I completely agree with this, and I think it's entirely possible for Jefferson to improve significantly.
Consider the 2004-05 and 2005-06 Carlos Boozer (when healthy). Like Al this season, Booze was a 17&9 player. He did shoot a much higher 53% from the floor - but like I've said before Boozer has always shot a high FG% wherever he's been, while Al hasn't. (In fairness, Boozer didn't have a DWill in his prime to play with those 2 seasons.) The significant improvement Boozer made to become a top-15 player in 2006-07 (even though he never quite reached that level again) came as a 26-yeard old, and I think Al could make a similar improvement as he improves his conditioning, low-post efficiency and ability to score on the move.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

This thread was started shortly after not blowing out the Grizzlies and I'm betting the frustration of some of the board, I'd like to point out not only have they went on to be the fakers the next night but they just beat OKC.

 

[gregbroncs]

I agree, we did not have the most talented teams. But again that lies at least in part with Sloan. We have heard many times players who don't want to play for Sloan (that was what came out of the infamous "YOU go play in Utah" quote, if you remember). Also, we all know in this organization that Sloan has as much input as KOC in determining who to pick in the draft, who to go after in free agency, who to keep and who to let go.

I am not saying that Sloan is the entire reason for all our woes, but I think his time has run its course. I couldn't tell you who to bring in, but I think it is time for some new blood. How about Hornacek?

I have not always been in Sloans corner. But right now for this team? I absolutely think he's the best coach for this team right now. Outside of Pops that is. Pops is the best coach in the league IMO. He also has the advantage of having more talent than Sloan almost every year he has been coaching.

Also the "you go play in Utah" is more about it being Utah than Sloan. Face it we don't have the best weather, bars, or reputation for night life that a lot of NBA players are looking for.