Why the Hell Isn't Rudy in the Starting Lineup?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Boozer's a lot like Kanter really. All offense, no defense. Average height with limited length, athleticism and worse, defensive foot speed and reaction. Likable guys but with a sort of semi-douchey public persona and inability to see their flaws and care about them. They're also guys who you think could be a key starter because of how strong they are on offense with the hope they'll "get it" and improve on defense. And they never do. Ever.

But Boozer was one of the top passing big men and Kanter is one of the worst passers in the history of the NBA. Kind of a huge difference maker.

 

[Hotdog]

I wouldn't say always. Early on in Sap's career he wasn't better than Boozer. The thing about Boozer vs. Kanter is that Boozer actually fit in an elite offense and was a big part of it's success and helping everyone else be successful in it. I could see why it would be hard to bench Boozer in Sloan's offensive system. Though I think Sap was the better player towards the end of his shared time with Boozer in Utah, Boozer was still the better fit for what Sloan wanted to do offensively.

Kanter just sucks at everything but post moves and offensive rebounding and doesn't fit into what Quin wants to do.

Yup, Boozer was the perfect fit for Sloan's offense and Dwill's game. Even if you think Sap was the better player, hard to argue he was the better fit for what we were doing at the time.

I can't believe so many people are defending Boozer. We weren't this offensive juggernaut because of him. Good defensive teams easily shut him down time after time.

Again, the Jazz were a good team with or without him


Anyone remember when Boozer went out for a bunch of games and Millsap went off with a bunch of double doubles in a row, and we were winning a bunch of games still? Then when Boozer got back, Millsap was benched again? Well I do, because I watched every game. And even back then this ridiculous argument that Boozer is better raged on then, with only a few of us wanting Millsap to start. Even though the proof was in the pudding with how we did with Millsap instead of Boozer, people still refused to see the truth just like now. And that was in the middle of Boozer's prime.(if you don't believe me, look it up)



It's fallacy to believe Boozer was ever a good or great player. He gave up way too much on defense for him to be good. We were better with Millsap. Maybe we weren't at first when Millsap was a rookie, but it wasn't long after.

 

[Hotdog]

Bro, the Warriors have Curry and Thompson, 2 offensive juggernauts. They can afford to bench scorers for defenders. Jazz had D-Will and Okur, neither who were as good at scoring. Comparing apples to oranges right there. And Green can hit 3's and Lee can't, so it's not like it's a pure defense for offense trade off, it's an offensive system fit trade off. Kind of like how Boozer fit Sloan's offensive system more.

Okur and DWill weren't good scorers? Wtf are you talking about? That's the only thing they were good at.

Seriously, you need to stop arguing about this. You were probably 14 at the time and didn't understand what was going on

 

[SojoDave]

So for Kanter's offense, we are giving up passing, defense, rim protection, offensive flow, and basketball IQ. I think that is too much to give up for that little of offense. ME WANTUM RUDY TO START. I get so bummed when Rudy isn't on the floor.

 

[fishonjazz]

How many championships did they win?

Set the bar a little higher please.

You may not think it would be nice to win a championship. I do though.

You said really good team. You set that bar yourself. You didn't say championship team

Stockton and Malone didn't win a chip.... I guess they were not good either

 

[fishonjazz]

Lol.

Nice try.

For one, Robin Lopez is a defensive center. A pretty good one too. Durant is also a good defender

What you just put up there was dumb.

Let me try

My defensive team (all great defenders)

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Karl Malone
Hakeem Olajuwon

Vs

Offensive team

Deron Williams
Kyle Korver
CJ Miles
Carlos Boozer
Memo Okur


See what I did there? Please don't ever try to make that point again. You are better than that Fish


I don't discount offense. I just demand you play defense.

Defense first, offense second. It's not complicated.


BTW, what does that first group all have in common? They were all great two players. Not one way players who eventually fade from memory.

We are discussing only defense vs only offense. Nice try

That is why I had nash, harden, dirk. (Horrible defenders) if you think durant and lopez are good defenders then go ahead and pick two other great offensive players that suck at defense.

You can't have the guys you chose on that defensive team cause they are all good offensive players.

Basically pick a team with all time great scorers who suck at defense vs a team of all time great defenders who suck at offense. See who would win.

 

[Farmer.Tan]

A little thing called offense. It's that part of the game that is concerned with making the ball go through the hoop. You see, in basketball, you get points for making the ball go in the hoop, and while stopping the other team is extremely useful, it is utterly pointless if you yourself can't put the ball in the hole afterwards. Hence our whopping score vs the Spurs when Rudy played 30 mins and Kanter had an off night and only played 22.

Rudy abd Derrick aren't an efficient offensive combo, and you can't not start Favors after paying him, and then the trade rumors around draft time.

There is no reason why Rudy, Enes, and Derrick can't get 30 mins a piece. We don't need to give those minutes to journeymen like Trevor Booker. The last few seasons, it seems like the Jazz FO have been overly concerned with developing our mediocre talent so they can move on and get their next mediocre contract. Shouldn't be our job.

You can not sit an emerging elite player for the excuse of "offense".
Go out and buy some offensive firepower.....but Rudy needs to be out there.

 

[GVC]

But Boozer was one of the top passing big men and Kanter is one of the worst passers in the history of the NBA. Kind of a huge difference maker.

Yep. Boozer and Kanter might be similar defensive players, but Boozer was a much better (team) offensive player. The two aren't comparable; Boozer was a legitimate all-star, Kanter is a third big.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Hotdog]

You said really good team. You set that bar yourself. You didn't say championship team

I ajve no idea what you are talking about here. I've always been about winning the championship. I've never been satisfied which just being good.

We are discussing only defense vs only offense. Nice try

That is why I had nash, harden, dirk. (Horrible defenders) if you think durant and lopez are good defenders then go ahead and pick two other great offensive players that suck at defense.

You can't have the guys you chose on that defensive team cause they are all good offensive players.

Basically pick a team with all time great scorers who suck at defense vs a team of all time great defenders who suck at offense. See who would win.

I could name an all defensive team that could beat an all offensive team. But this exercise is pointless. I could just sit here all day an put players like CJ Miles up against Draymond Green type of players and make the argument win for me.

And I've never said I don't like offense. You are putting words in my mouth and only hearing what you want to.

Here, let me make it loud and clear


I WANT TWO WAY PLAYERS, OR DEFENSIVE PLAYERS. NOT JUST ONE WAY OFFENSIVE PLAYERS. PLAYERS MUST BE ABLE TO PLAY DEFENSE. OR AT LEAST TRY. YOU CAN'T WIN WITHOUT DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!! OF COURSE OFFENSE IS IMPORTANT. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T D UP.


was that clear enough?


SHOW ME ONE TEAM THAT HAS EVER WON A CHAMPIONSHIP NOT PLAYING DEFENSE.





HOLY COW!!! THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!

 

[fishonjazz]

I ajve no idea what you are talking about here. I've always been about winning the championship. I've never been satisfied which just being good.

This what I'm taking about. You said you can't be a really good team (didn't say championship) with one way offensive players.
That jazz team and suns team were both really good.

I don't think you can be a really good team with one way offensive players.

 

[Hotdog]

This what I'm taking about. You said you can't be a really good team (didn't say championship) with one way offensive players.
That jazz team and suns team were both really good.

Really good??


So you consider a team who regularly got best down by in the playoffs to be a really good team?

 

[Hotdog]

Yep. Boozer and Kanter might be similar defensive players, but Boozer was a much better (team) offensive player. The two aren't comparable; Boozer was a legitimate all-star, Kanter is a third big.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

Please stfu. You are a moron


Boozer was the product of a system where he hit a lot of easy jumpers because he had the energy too, because he didn't play defense. He barely made the all star team ONCE!!!!, and he sucked