Why Wasn't Harden Ejected
- Thread starter homeytennis
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MVP
Well-Known Member
lol, it is clearly a travel dude - please prove how making a 3 steps after gathering the ball is not a travel ( some people even counting it as 4 steps but I can give him benefit of the doubt on 1 step as to when the ball actually is being touched by both hands). But after it is done it is 3 steps - travel in every rule book.
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MVP
Well-Known Member
In this video all Harden step backs are legal. Please compare them to double step backs vs Rubio and Wiggins. See the difference?
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
"The first count occurs:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it."
That's the left foot after he gathers.
"The second occurs:
(1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously."
Sorry you disagree with the rule.
MVP
Well-Known Member
You are not seeing it correctly. Even the dude in video counted to 4 steps, which I can argue about 1... but after that he does 3 steps and his both feet do not touch the floor simultaneously. This is where you are wrong, its not landing on both feet as one step, it is a double step. Left foot, right foot, left foot. 3 steps =travel
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
MVP
Well-Known Member
The rule is correct when he lands on both feet. Not when he takes extra step.
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
MVP
Well-Known Member
Why are you arguing? Rule is fine. He did travel and took three steps ( his feet did not land simultaneously - first step with left foot, then second with right and third with left. Please prove to me that landing on right foot and then on left is one step.
NBA refs are digging in on the Harden step back , addressed on TV . they say the Harden move is not a travel. Why ? because you are allowed 2 steps after you pick up your dribble.... okay, this is a perversion of the game as I learned it... but I'll adjust to the new rule, fine, you are allowed 2 steps, which used to be only for a layup, but now you can take 2 steps, whether you are going for a layup, or sideways, or backwards... cool.
THE entire NBA ref'g community seems completely oblivious to the possibility that maybe Harden sometimes steps back without traveling, and yet there may be other times when he takes a stepback that is a travel.
Harden does not make the move exactly the same way every time. Sometimes he is taking 2 steps, sometimes he is taking 3 or more. When he is taking more than 2 it should be called a travel, and it isn't.
Do your job and call the plays according to what is happening on the court, not your preconceptions of which players travel and which players don't. Base the calls on the actual play, not calling it on autopilot.
Often he picks up his dribble, then moves his pivot foot with a little hop, then makes a big hop with two feet, which often do not land together. That's 3 steps. Maybe you've collectively decided that it is too hard to catch whether the player is moving his pivot foot on the gather or after the gather , so if it's close you let it go...? and maybe it's too hard to see if a player is landing with both feet together on the hop or separately, so if it's close you let it go? but the thing is, lot's of times With JH it's not even close. He is taking 3 distinct steps, after he has gathered.
(Furthermore, if you are not going to call this a travel, then why in hell do you call a travel on other players just for moving the little hop without the big hop? That's one step by your count, not 3 , and that is a travel for other players?!?!)
THE entire NBA ref'g community seems completely oblivious to the possibility that maybe Harden sometimes steps back without traveling, and yet there may be other times when he takes a stepback that is a travel.
Harden does not make the move exactly the same way every time. Sometimes he is taking 2 steps, sometimes he is taking 3 or more. When he is taking more than 2 it should be called a travel, and it isn't.
Do your job and call the plays according to what is happening on the court, not your preconceptions of which players travel and which players don't. Base the calls on the actual play, not calling it on autopilot.
Often he picks up his dribble, then moves his pivot foot with a little hop, then makes a big hop with two feet, which often do not land together. That's 3 steps. Maybe you've collectively decided that it is too hard to catch whether the player is moving his pivot foot on the gather or after the gather , so if it's close you let it go...? and maybe it's too hard to see if a player is landing with both feet together on the hop or separately, so if it's close you let it go? but the thing is, lot's of times With JH it's not even close. He is taking 3 distinct steps, after he has gathered.
(Furthermore, if you are not going to call this a travel, then why in hell do you call a travel on other players just for moving the little hop without the big hop? That's one step by your count, not 3 , and that is a travel for other players?!?!)
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PS... I suspect that the rule is really 3 steps now as long you like the look of the "dance" the player is doing, and think it is good for the popularity of the game... which allows for a lot if discretion to favor some players over others, whatever,,,, but allowing Houston ballhandlers to push off hard 15/20 times a game to create space is ridiculous. Come on, call it fair.
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Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Damn, we all are thinking it at one point or another, and you said it, speaking loud and clear. I know that your no newby to watching the NBA when you drop officials names like Baveta, Mauer, and Crawford. And that's just to name a few that you mentioned. This is a real problem. Those officials you names are the start of the problem and it resides now more than ever.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
You can't say to call it fair because players push off every game and say that the 3 step dance should be accepted because of the popularity of the game. Stick to the fundamentals of what made this game great. This was a debatable issue back in the mid 90's with Hakeem Olajuwon dancing his way all over the court. And we debated that you can't change the rule because one guy can't obey them, the same goes for the rules in todays NBA.
LakersSlapper, I agree with you, but that's not up to me. I am just trying to nail down the definition of what the step back is and isn't, so that the rule can be applied fairly. At this point in time as far as I can tell we have an inequity on a scale never before seen. Harden is allowed to shove away his defender, and then dance 3 steps backwards with impunity. I can't believe that this is legal, or everyone would do it every play. Not to mention the flops and the jumping into people to draw fouls, but that's another discussion.
If the shove and 3 step dance and etc. is allowed for Harden, then let everybody do it. Houston will still likely lose this year to a team that gets similar calls, and next year the entire league's parity would be flipped.
If the shove and 3 step dance and etc. is allowed for Harden, then let everybody do it. Houston will still likely lose this year to a team that gets similar calls, and next year the entire league's parity would be flipped.
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