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Will a Jazz player take a knee during the National Anthem this year?

Will a Jazz player take a knee during the Nat'l Anthem this year?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 8.3%

  • No

    Votes: 34 70.8%

  • Cheese

    Votes: 10 20.8%
  • Total voters
    48
Ron Mexico said:
Maybe instead of attacking people trying to fight for equal rights you should just help them get it. It seems like instead of being defensive about racism you could help the world be a better place. If you have never done something racist, that's great. Maybe now help others stop it. If you have, like most people, then try and see when you do it and be aware you did it and try and change. It's pretty simple.

If black lives matter isn't helping with racism the way you want start another group that helps end racism and bring equal rights for all.

Instead of combing through stories to try and find something negative about a group trying to do good in the world focus on making that group better or start or join another group that helps accomplish that.

Unless you don't believe in equal rights based on skin color. Or you turn a blind eye to the discrimination happening.

It's easy to ignore Injustice when it isn't happening to you. Some people don't have much of a choice but to fight back to get equal rights. I'm glad most people are fighting back with peaceful protests. Hopefully more join in the peaceful protests and be the change they are preaching when they claim to want everyone to be treated equal.
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How do you know what I do and don't do? I hate racism, hell, unfairness in general, but people making their case by being morons certainly doesn't help. In fact it hurts, a lot. I'm a self employed IT guy and a great share of my clients are public defender lawyers. Using the computer and video evidence provided in discovery I've helped get innocent people off, and guilty people who are still salvageable a second chance. By and large, however, most of the people in jail deserve to be there because of the choices that THEY made, not because of a racist police department.

What I would recommend to you is to do a ride along with your local police department. They are generally more than happy to have you come along and see what they do every day. I've done it twice and never looked at policing the same again.

I used to be an activist, but generally I just spend a few hours a week helping the food bank, which I have found to be the best use of my "activist" hours lately.
 
framer said:
How do you know what I do and don't do? I hate racism, hell, unfairness in general, but people making their case by being morons certainly doesn't help. In fact it hurts, a lot. I'm a self employed IT guy and a great share of my clients are public defender lawyers. Using the computer and video evidence provided in discovery I've helped get innocent people off, and guilty people who are still salvageable a second chance. By and large, however, most of the people in jail deserve to be there because of the choices that THEY made, not because of a racist police department.

What I would recommend to you is to do a ride along with your local police department. They are generally more than happy to have you come along and see what they do every day. I've done it twice and never looked at policing the same again.

I used to be an activist, but generally I just spend a few hours a week helping the food bank, which I have found to be the best use of my "activist" hours lately.
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I have done plenty of ride alongs. I volunteer for the police department multiple times a year. I have many clients in law enforcement. I think most of them are great people. The fact is police treat people if color with less respect, pull them over it harass them more often, arrest them more often for the same offense and give them longer sentences for the same crime. There is lots and lots of evidence of that. Anecdotal evidence is not proof it isn't happening. Based on your post you are implying that most cops don't discriminate and it's not an issue and that simply isn't true. Stats overwhelmingly back that up.

I'm glad people are speaking up about it and bringing attention to it even if it makes some paint uncomfortable and/or causes them to fight back.

I don't blame law enforcement for the problems it is poor training, societal racism that is leaked into everyone's lives and bad information spread. Again I think most law enforcement people are good people trying to make the world a better place.

Again your trying to make this an argument that people are claiming police are bad humans and that is not the case. It's not an either or argument that you seem to be trying to make. Most racism is subtle and when sub conscience. It's not always even bad thing's you think that are racist. It's simply assuming something about someone because of their skin color. Those assumptions become discrimination.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I have done plenty of ride alongs. I volunteer for the police department multiple times a year. I have many clients in law enforcement. I think most of them are great people. The fact is police treat people if color with less respect, pull them over it harass them more often, arrest them more often for the same offense and give them longer sentences for the same crime. There is lots and lots of evidence of that. Anecdotal evidence is not proof it isn't happening. Based on your post you are implying that most cops don't discriminate and it's not an issue and that simply isn't true. Stats overwhelmingly back that up.

I'm glad people are speaking up about it and bringing attention to it even if it makes some paint uncomfortable and/or causes them to fight back.

I don't blame law enforcement for the problems it is poor training, societal racism that is leaked into everyone's lives and bad information spread. Again I think most law enforcement people are good people trying to make the world a better place.

Again your trying to make this an argument that people are claiming police are bad humans and that is not the case. It's not an either or argument that you seem to be trying to make. Most racism is subtle and when sub conscience. It's not always even bad thing's you think that are racist. It's simply assuming something about someone because of their skin color. Those assumptions become discrimination.
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Except people ARE making the claims that police as a whole are bad people. That is most CERTAINLY happening, especially in the leadership of BLM. That is why they are being disrespected. If you make it "with us or against us!" you kind of force people's hand even if they would be sympathetic to your cause. When you start painting the ACLU as Nazis, yeah you are a long ways into the weeds from making your point.

And as far as gathering sentencing guidelines to prove a point, it really isn't apples and oranges. Most of the prison population in for drug charges are plead out on a lesser charge. You get nailed on distribution but are a first time offender, generally they will let you plead to possession to both give you a break and save the system trial costs. Later on someone will come along and make a point about the unfairness of the large number of people in jail over "possession" forcing the prosecutors to throw the book at small time dealers and fully charge them.

You want to reform the legal system, let's do that. We can revisit mandatory minimums, throw in some police camera legislation, make a point of recruiting more minorities to the force, hell even step up citizen review boards.

The problem is that there is little opportunity for graft and centralizing power in these moves so nobody is seriously looking at them as a solution. There is far more desire to paint an enemy to rake in dollars and avoid solutions that can be pursued WITHIN each community. TBH this is pretty much ALL politics today, not just related to BLM.

I guess that is the difference between us. You see BLM as a sincere change maker, I see them as the same old political crap repackaged and refuse to take them and their mostly ridiculous "messengers" seriously. I know what a civil rights crusader looks like. This ain't that.
 
I find it amusing and bewildering how worked up people get over BLM.
 
framer said:
Denouncing Castro is not a damn "complicated issue." Just stop. If you disagree with Castro he has you jailed or killed. Every time. There are no dissidents living freely in Cuba. That is not equal to things Trump does. It is far worse that whatever slights Kap is yelling about. What Castro does is NOT the fault of American imperialism. When activists that may have a good point start reflexively defending Castro, they can go to hell. Don't care about them or their support of whatever their cause is.
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Castro > Reagan
 
Bulletproof said:
I find it amusing and bewildering how worked up people get over BLM.
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I find it predictable. White people are scrambling trying to maintain their positions of power and supremacy in society.

They will lose this fight.
 
framer said:
Except people ARE making the claims that police as a whole are bad people. That is most CERTAINLY happening, especially in the leadership of BLM. That is why they are being disrespected. If you make it "with us or against us!" you kind of force people's hand even if they would be sympathetic to your cause. When you start painting the ACLU as Nazis, yeah you are a long ways into the weeds from making your point.

And as far as gathering sentencing guidelines to prove a point, it really isn't apples and oranges. Most of the prison population in for drug charges are plead out on a lesser charge. You get nailed on distribution but are a first time offender, generally they will let you plead to possession to both give you a break and save the system trial costs. Later on someone will come along and make a point about the unfairness of the large number of people in jail over "possession" forcing the prosecutors to throw the book at small time dealers and fully charge them.

You want to reform the legal system, let's do that. We can revisit mandatory minimums, throw in some police camera legislation, make a point of recruiting more minorities to the force, hell even step up citizen review boards.

The problem is that there is little opportunity for graft and centralizing power in these moves so nobody is seriously looking at them as a solution. There is far more desire to paint an enemy to rake in dollars and avoid solutions that can be pursued WITHIN each community. TBH this is pretty much ALL politics today, not just related to BLM.

I guess that is the difference between us. You see BLM as a sincere change maker, I see them as the same old political crap repackaged and refuse to take them and their mostly ridiculous "messengers" seriously. I know what a civil rights crusader looks like. This ain't that.
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Lol again

That's like saying that all Republicans believe that Obama was trying to build FEMA death camps. Srsly wow some 20 year old kid who was drawn to something for a legitimate gripe said some crazy **** that he didn't really understanf. So ****ing what. 1 in 4 black man in this country will do hard time. No matter what ******** some young kid says that is still true.

Yoy know what happens to prisoners before they leave prison; they become convicts. Srsly they get ****ed up! On 2 different occasions in my youth I pulled an excon(2 separate cons) off of people who said the word bitch. Both times they weren't even talking to the person.

Now imagine that you never did anything wrong but that was your dad. On top of that because of your appearance the vast majority of people assumed you were dangerous. These are mitigating circumstances. This is a reality of our(us white folk) own creation. The solution is to loudly and proudly affirm as white people that black lives matter. We are not only not willing to relive the 1880's but not the 1980's either. We will not be content with a system in which a disproportionate number of black people are prisoners, poor, victims, or whatever because we know that the true difference between them and us is superfluous.
 
dalamon said:
I find it predictable. White people are scrambling trying to maintain their positions of power and supremacy in society.

They will lose this fight.
Click to expand...

I resent you telling me what I'm supposedly doing. I'm not doing anything like you said.
 
Bulletproof said:
I find it amusing and bewildering how worked up people get over BLM.
Click to expand...

You either lack common sense or you don't watch the news much, which is it?


Disrupting meetings, blocking traffic and calling for police to be killed are all good reasons to be worked up over BLM. Try being a policeman and having someone walk up to your car and put a bullet in your head for no reason except you're a public servant trying to protect the public. I would like to see the statistics on that occurring since BLM started calling for police to be killed. Don't get upset you say...tell the to the black female officers 2 kids that was killed sitting in her cruiser doing nothing to anyone.
 
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