Will a Jazz player take a knee during the National Anthem this year?

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Look, I support the players in their peaceful protest, and don't think it in any way shows disrespect to country or flag or whatever, because it's in protest of injustice of principles the flag represents, and I understand that there is racism still today, but putting out a ridiculous list of ten demands for whites to give a family of color their homes, job and other things is a message of oppression and sounds like what a KKK group should do to blacks if they could. It promotes hate and segregation. If there is improvement, it's not because of the leadership of BLM, and no real change will happen as a result of that leadership in promoting hate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Should say would do to blacks not should


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ron Mexico]

I want you to respond to each point I made, if you really want us to be the b.s. you are spouting. And yes, I believe BLM is the same crap the KKK is.

Well first of all you only made 1 point in which I have responded to a couple times. Individuals acting outside of a groups purpose does not invalidate the groups purpose. You can take any group and find outliers.

As far as your individual examples ill address some of them.

#2 and #3: First of all I dont condone shooting or attacking police and neither does BLM. Anyone attacking or killing cops is acting on their own and hurting the BLM message. As far as these two stories go you might want to research them a little more.
http://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/

This video actually answers a couple of your assertions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=291&v=gGQnJ8kXUko

One of the best points he makes is that BLM is not perfect but that many of the assertions about them misrepresent the movement and use incorrect information. He also points out that BLM is not 1 cohesive group that acts as 1. It has many different chapters that all act independently.

As far as a couple of those go they are fairly complex and I can have a discussion about them but it will take quite awhile to discuss them and their complexity. Especially 1 and 5. But to get there I would have to see where you are at with your understanding of some of the situations and how you feel about things again.

So again lets start with the basics. Do you think racism is happening on any wide scale level in this country? Is racism a problem in our society?

And yes, I believe BLM is the same crap the KKK is.

That is very very far from the truth. They are opposite. Maybe you should research a little more about both groups. And not just finding information to confirm what you think.

 

[jazzrule]

Well first of all you only made 1 point in which I have responded to a couple times. Individuals acting outside of a groups purpose does not invalidate the groups purpose. You can take any group and find outliers.

As far as your individual examples ill address some of them.

#2 and #3: First of all I dont condone shooting or attacking police and neither does BLM. Anyone attacking or killing cops is acting on their own and hurting the BLM message. As far as these two stories go you might want to research them a little more.
http://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/

This video actually answers a couple of your assertions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=291&v=gGQnJ8kXUko

One of the best points he makes is that BLM is not perfect but that many of the assertions about them misrepresent the movement and use incorrect information. He also points out that BLM is not 1 cohesive group that acts as 1. It has many different chapters that all act independently.

As far as a couple of those go they are fairly complex and I can have a discussion about them but it will take quite awhile to discuss them and their complexity. Especially 1 and 5. But to get there I would have to see where you are at with your understanding of some of the situations and how you feel about things again.

So again lets start with the basics. Do you think racism is happening on any wide scale level in this country? Is racism a problem in our society?


That is very very far from the truth. They are opposite. Maybe you should research a little more about both groups. And not just finding information to confirm what you think.

Just go and attend your BLM meetings. There is no changing your mind no matter how many facts I post. You sure have not changed my mind, thats for sure. Nice chatting with you.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Just go and attend your BLM meetings. There is no changing your mind no matter how many facts I post. You sure have not changed my mind, thats for sure. Nice chatting with you.

I will keep attending, thanks for the encouragement. There has been so many positive things that have been accomplished in SLC already by this group and more room to improve. Its been great to have chatted with you. I hope you keep looking into these issues with an open attitude.

 

[Stoked]

Well first of all you only made 1 point in which I have responded to a couple times. Individuals acting outside of a groups purpose does not invalidate the groups purpose. You can take any group and find outliers.

As far as your individual examples ill address some of them.

#2 and #3: First of all I dont condone shooting or attacking police and neither does BLM. Anyone attacking or killing cops is acting on their own and hurting the BLM message. As far as these two stories go you might want to research them a little more.
http://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/

This video actually answers a couple of your assertions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=291&v=gGQnJ8kXUko

One of the best points he makes is that BLM is not perfect but that many of the assertions about them misrepresent the movement and use incorrect information. He also points out that BLM is not 1 cohesive group that acts as 1. It has many different chapters that all act independently.

As far as a couple of those go they are fairly complex and I can have a discussion about them but it will take quite awhile to discuss them and their complexity. Especially 1 and 5. But to get there I would have to see where you are at with your understanding of some of the situations and how you feel about things again.

So again lets start with the basics. Do you think racism is happening on any wide scale level in this country? Is racism a problem in our society?


That is very very far from the truth. They are opposite. Maybe you should research a little more about both groups. And not just finding information to confirm what you think.

As you say they are different groups that act independently. And do not all have lock step ideology. Some of them are far more aggressive and racist than others. I won't call them the KKK equivalent as a whole but there are groups under the BLM name that fall closer to them than not. Due to them not being an organized group with an organized message I do not support them as a whole. Despite their being obvious problems that they are trying to raise awareness for. I can openly admit that there are some horribly unjust areas like criminal sentencing that must be addressed.

So in short, I am sympathetic to and support the need for change but do not really support the group itself.

Edit: In my geographical area I hold the highly unpopular view that the BLM supporters and Bundy supporters should be natural allies. I'm in the extreme minority there lol.

 

[Ron Mexico]

As you say they are different groups that act independently. And do not all have lock step ideology. Some of them are far more aggressive and racist than others. I won't call them the KKK equivalent as a whole but there are groups under the BLM name that fall closer to them than not. Due to them not being an organized group with an organized message I do not support them as a whole. Despite their being obvious problems that they are trying to raise awareness for. I can openly admit that there are some horribly unjust areas like criminal sentencing that must be addressed.

So in short, I am sympathetic to and support the need for change but do not really support the group itself.

Edit: In my geographical area I hold the highly unpopular view that the BLM supporters and Bundy supporters should be natural allies. I'm in the extreme minority there lol.

Did you watch the video? His explanation of the separate chapters is much better than mine. BLM has one message but different groups do have different demands. No violence and hate speech is a part of BLM. There have been people associated with BLM that have done things independent that are outside the message. But most of the negative things associated with BLM have been lies as the Snopes article showed about a bunch of them.

But I understand if you dont support the group, some of the demands make people uncomfortable. There are extreme people within the group and there are angry people. As long as people recognize the injustices and racism that are ingrained in our culture and a real problem for many people than that is great. I hope everyone finds a way to try and make it better. Even if thats on an individual level realizing the stereotypes most of us make and how they can hurt people and trying to recognize those and correct them.

 

[Stoked]

all sorts of ideas and responses but this isn't the place for it. In short, all sides need to change things and work together or it won't ever really get better.

 

[Scorpjazz]

Lost your mind totally. BLM is the same, they just have more outlets (media, yourself) running disinformation nonstop. They have their 'fringe' "fanatics" that embrace violence and intimidation (which is accepted and even rationalized by the "mainstream" BLM) But go ahead and keep trying to spin turd into gold. Made for an amazing read, wow.
At no point in human history has any people been as free or enjoyed a higher standard of living than those in America right now. ALL of them. Straight, gay, white, black,christian, jew, rich, poor. ALL of them live better than most people ever have, anywhere.
The ILLEGAL ALIENS (not undocumented) living here have a better standard of living than 75% of the world. All of the "minority" groups who are so oppressed are, right now, more free to be who they are and live how they want than they have even been anywhere, ever. Ever. Even attempting some of the things they do in this "oppressive" country would get them killed in a lot of countries.

Simpleton, fake victims everywhere.

 

[Stoked]

Lost your mind totally. BLM is the same, they just have more outlets (media, yourself) running disinformation nonstop. They have their 'fringe' "fanatics" that embrace violence and intimidation (which is accepted and even rationalized by the "mainstream" BLM) But go ahead and keep trying to spin turd into gold. Made for an amazing read, wow.
At no point in human history has any people been as free or enjoyed a higher standard of living than those in America right now. ALL of them. Straight, gay, white, black,christian, jew, rich, poor. ALL of them live better than most people ever have, anywhere.
The ILLEGAL ALIENS (not undocumented) living here have a better standard of living than 75% of the world. All of the "minority" groups who are so oppressed are, right now, more free to be who they are and live how they want than they have even been anywhere, ever. Ever. Even attempting some of the things they do in this "oppressive" country would get them killed in a lot of countries.

Simpleton, fake victims everywhere.

And none of that does anything to address the improvements we can make to the problems in our own society. America is awesome. We rock. We can still be better and some real problems exist.

 

[DutchJazzer]

C'mon, don't be stupid. The point is that tossing a term that has weight around casually means that it loses its power. If someone is a "racist" for tweeting about "Taco Tuesday" people will start ignoring the people feigning outrage. The parable of the "boy who cries wolf" resonates for a reason.

Are you trying to tell me that there haven't been a lot of people calling wolf?

jus tlike being claled a nazi. i have been called a nazi so many times. it means nothing to me.

so i start using the word national socialist. is what the nazis where. and try to educate the braoindead or indoctrinnated people about what nazi policies actually where, and maybe just maybe they relaize it is to the left of clinton right about where bernie sits

 

[DutchJazzer]

This is actually the perfect response to people who insist that others (including professional athletes) stand for the flag and the anthem instead of obeying the dictates of their own conscience. I'll be borrowing it, if you don't mind.

yeah maybe start by managing and improving your own live. maybe first start by cleaning your habitat, and keeping it clean.

i tell SJW & SJA always to go clean their room!

 

[DutchJazzer]

Well first of all you only made 1 point in which I have responded to a couple times. Individuals acting outside of a groups purpose does not invalidate the groups purpose. You can take any group and find outliers.

As far as your individual examples ill address some of them.

#2 and #3: First of all I dont condone shooting or attacking police and neither does BLM. Anyone attacking or killing cops is acting on their own and hurting the BLM message. As far as these two stories go you might want to research them a little more.
http://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/

This video actually answers a couple of your assertions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=291&v=gGQnJ8kXUko

One of the best points he makes is that BLM is not perfect but that many of the assertions about them misrepresent the movement and use incorrect information. He also points out that BLM is not 1 cohesive group that acts as 1. It has many different chapters that all act independently.

As far as a couple of those go they are fairly complex and I can have a discussion about them but it will take quite awhile to discuss them and their complexity. Especially 1 and 5. But to get there I would have to see where you are at with your understanding of some of the situations and how you feel about things again.

So again lets start with the basics. Do you think racism is happening on any wide scale level in this country? Is racism a problem in our society?


That is very very far from the truth. They are opposite. Maybe you should research a little more about both groups. And not just finding information to confirm what you think.

it got the hashtag FACTS!

so i gues sthose are facts


.thread/ discussion

#Blacklivesmatter, #killallwhites!