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Will Donovan Mitchell surpass Stockton/Malone careers with the Jazz?

Will Donovan Mitchell surpass Stockton/Malone's career with the Jazz?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 46.3%
  • No

    Votes: 29 53.7%

  • Total voters
    54
3813 combined games for the Jazz by the three legends in that picture. Out of 3874 possible, by the way. That's right, the three players in the picture missed 61 combined games in 47 seasons they gave the Jazz. 98.4% participation rate. Also:

2 MVP awards
1 DPOY award
23 All-Star games
#1 all-time in assists
#1 and #10 all-time in steals
#2 all-time in points
#5 all-time in blocks
#7 all-time in rebounds
...and many, many other records and accomplishments.

I'm getting teary eyed just talking about it. Donovan should spend as much time as possible around those 3 and that older, fourth guy. Learn by osmosis.
 
And we never had to worry about them leaving. Malone did have that one offseason where he lost his mind, lol but never worried, knew he was blowing off steam
 
I think the following would need to occur for Mitchell to be viewed as surpassing Stockton and Malone (not necessarily in order of importance):

1) Longevity with the franchise. At least 10 years, and ending his career here is best.
2) Popularity. He is already mostly on par with Stock and Malone, and ahead of them in this regard in lots of ways. He is far more likable than either Stock or Malone really ever were. Stock was too stoic, Malone too, idk, full of himself maybe? Malone was at least an entertaining interview, Stock was a good all around guy that just didn't say much. Mitchell has that positive outlook and cares about the community and that goes a long way.
3) High level of personal performance. Not expecting him to beat the stats that Stock and Malone put up, both of Stock's records are going to be damn near impossible to repeat let along beat, and it is a bit much to ask for Mitchell to be the 2nd leading scorer in league history. But he need to put up solid numbers across the board, and do it consistently. A consistent 22 ppg, maybe higher (Malone averaged 25 ppg for this career), 4 asst, 4 boards, 2 steals, etc. This is a combination of single game/single season/career stats.
4) Win - regular season. Has to carry us to multiple winning seasons, threatening the top teams in the league for regular season wins. Needs to top 60 wins a few times.
5) Win - playoffs. Has to lead the team to multiple playoff appearances, with many series wins. Needs to make the conference finals a few times. Needs to be the decisive playoff leader in this pursuit. Good news is he has one season of this under his belt already.
6) Win - championship? If he wins one, and that is all he does, say in year 5, and has #2 on this list wrapped up, and the very next year bolts for another super-team, where would he fall? Would the ring be enough to surpass Stock and Malone? Personally I don't think so. It puts him solidly in 3rd place on the all-time Jazz list with this achievement alone, but he needs a couple more on this list to really surpass the statues and get his own. It would be enough to get a jersey retired definitely, but not a statue.

So right now, in comparison to Stock and Malone, I give him this rating, point by point on the list above:

Completely arbitrary rating scale:
-3 = solidly behind stock and malone
-1 = gaining ground, pretty close, but still behind
0 = on par or not applicable (yet)
+1 = a bit ahead
+3 = well ahead of the statues

#1: -3
#2: 0
#3: -3
#4: -1 (giving him credit for nearly single-handedly turning around what should have been one of our worst seasons)
#5: -3
#6: 0

Total score = -10

Score needed to match Malone and Stockton = -2 to 3
Score needed to "surpass" Malone and Stockton (probably enough for the statue) = 6-12 (and no more than 1 negative category, 0 is ok)
Score needed to become the Jazz Legend of ancient mythology = 15+ (no negative categories, no more than 1 @ 0)


(scores of 4, 5, 13, and 14 are somewhat ambiguous depending on the number of negative categories)


You're talking a Dwyane Wade, maybe Wade-lite with better 3 point shot, slightly fewer assists and FTA's. That's unbelievably a realistic projection. Unbelievable because he came out of nowhere to put up numbers nearly identical to a guy who was a consensus future all star before draft day. His ast% is even comparable.
 
And we never had to worry about them leaving. Malone did have that one offseason where he lost his mind, lol but never worried, knew he was blowing off steam
This is a good point. There was never really a time you thought John or Karl were leaving.

I sort of feel that way with Rudy, I don’t really worry about him leaving. Donovan it’s too early to truly tell, but it’s off to a great start. From what he’s said he plans on being here for a long time, hopefully that’s the truth.
 
Some team might give him that super max. But that is a risk he didnt want to take and I think it was a smart choice. I dont think its a guarantee that in 2 years a team will want to give up 40% on the back end of their salary to PG. Many teams are seeing that is a bad idea. Hence why some of these players are being traded away, such as PG and Jimmy Butler. Its a no brainer for certain players but these guys are on the fringe of that.

I would not want the Jazz to sign PG to a 10 year vet supermax. You give a supermax to a top 5 player, maybe top 10. I dont think PG is that. I also dont think he will be that in 2 years, I think he will continue to decline. A max like he got now is a decent deal but still risky for a team.

A top 5 player is worth so much more than the super max.(that's kinda the problem with it if you care at all about parity and competition).

KD isn't worth 35 million a year(max). It's closer to 65.

I wouldn't say that Butler is overpaid all that much. It's more that the Superstars are underpaid.
 
This is a good point. There was never really a time you thought John or Karl were leaving.

I sort of feel that way with Rudy, I don’t really worry about him leaving. Donovan it’s too early to truly tell, but it’s off to a great start. From what he’s said he plans on being here for a long time, hopefully that’s the truth.

Uhhh no?

Karl had one foot out the door more than once. It took a ton of work and interpersonal relationships to keep him here. Without any one of Stockton, Jerry, or Larry he probably would have left. In a time without max contracts or a Cap, when KM was arguably the 2nd best player in the he NBA, Karl made (iirc) 6 million while Jordan made 33. Above all he wanted to win and the Jazz did a piss poor job of building around Utah's duo.

It was a different time for media when every little thing wasn't blown out of proportion. If KM said the kinda things he did back then today twitter would be on fire and the vultures would be circling.
 
A top 5 player is worth so much more than the super max.(that's kinda the problem with it if you care at all about parity and competition).

KD isn't worth 35 million a year(max). It's closer to 65.

I wouldn't say that Butler is overpaid all that much. It's more that the Superstars are underpaid.

Thats maybe a litte high.

If KD was paid that much you couldn't put much around him and its unlikely his team would win a championship. Lebron is really the only guy who could possibly justify that much. No one player(KD) is worth 65% of the cap. Its a team game. Team play will beat that strategy I think. Im pretty sure Id take 3 or 4 guys around 15-22 mil per year, than KD and some scrubs. Of course it all depends who these players are.

I do agree on some level though. I just think its more like some of these wannabe max guys shouldnt be paid as much as they are. The Lebrons and KD's of the world should be making a lot more than the Gordon Haywards.

Getting a max offer should have to come with strict qualifications I think. Then you could have a few different levels down. Gordon Hayward making pretty much the same as the top players in the league is stupid. One Allstar game appearance should not be equal to guys making multiple allstar games, all NBA teams, winning MVP's, winning championships, etc.. These accomplishments should probably effect salary more. Even throw in games won along with minutes played, etc.. Make it one big complicated formula.

What should come out of that formula and what salaries should actually look like is this.

Lebron - 50 mil per

Steph - 40 mil per
KD - 40 mil per

Gordon Hayward - 18 mil per

Thats how you would probably get league parity too.
 
Uhhh no?

Karl had one foot out the door more than once. It took a ton of work and interpersonal relationships to keep him here. Without any one of Stockton, Jerry, or Larry he probably would have left. In a time without max contracts or a Cap, when KM was arguably the 2nd best player in the he NBA, Karl made (iirc) 6 million while Jordan made 33. Above all he wanted to win and the Jazz did a piss poor job of building around Utah's duo.

It was a different time for media when every little thing wasn't blown out of proportion. If KM said the kinda things he did back then today twitter would be on fire and the vultures would be circling.

Lol. I still remember him doing his own radio bit when he went on his tirade. Never once did I think he was leaving. Every now and then he and Larry H would fight like an old married couple, Larry was like a father to him, never once did I think he was leaving, he never even once asked for a trade even. Every few years Malone would go off, never meant nothing and everyone but you knew he was just blowing off steam.


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