Will Okur improve our Rebounding?

[Twin Towers]

At first thought most people would say no. I mean he only averages 7 rebounds per game. How could he help the team rebounding when Millsap and Jefferson are both better at rebounding than Okur. If you asked me a couple years ago I would say Okur does not help our rebounding.

Than after watching Fesenko (I have been a homer for all of these years) and seeing how well he boxed out his man or at least took up enough space so they could not get offensive rebounds. I started to realize Fesenko takes up enough space so our team can get rebounds.

Than I started to realize well why was Boozer getting so many more rebounds than Millsap and Jefferson. Boozer pushed people in the back all the time and he was always out of position but he still ended up with 10 plus boards.

I have been a hater of Okur for years because I thought we relied on the 3 way too much when he was in the game. But I have to give credit where its due and after thinking about it I think Okur boxed out his man very very well. He might not have got the rebound but he did not allow the Biggest man on the opposing team to get the rebound either. He always stayed in front of his man and it allowed boozer to jump in front and grab rebounds.

Jefferson and Millsap do not box out like they should. And hopefully Okur will help that once he comes back. Boxing out the center is very important so hopefully Okur can improve the team rebounding when he comes back.

Agree or Disagree?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I agree. I think Okur does box out, and allows our team to rebound better defensively.
I think Deron and the rest of the team from prior years knows this, which is why he has said they miss him on the floor.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Offensive rebounding, yes. Defensive rebounding, no. He won't hurt defensive rebounding, though. If I were to make a prediction, the Jazz' rebounding rate will slightly improve.

 

[mellow]

Any idea on the rotation when he comes back? If Okur starts and Jefferson comes off the bench Milsap's rebounds should go up and the second unit's rebounds should increase.

 

[vslice02]

Any idea on the rotation when he comes back? If Okur starts and Jefferson comes off the bench Milsap's rebounds should go up and the second unit's rebounds should increase.

I think the Jazz will continue starting Millsap and Jefferson until the all-star break, and likely for the remainder of the season.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I don't think Okur is going to just step in and be the Memo of old. I doubt he'll play more than 15 minutes for the first several weeks after his return, and I don't think he'll play 30 minutes until after the all-star break. Just because he's not athletic, doesn't mean he an achilles injury won't affect his game and I'm also not sure his 3pt-shooting will be there immediately. I know they say he looks good in practice but that's nothing like an actual game in terms of conditioning as well as muscle-memory situations.

Either way, his return will definitely give the Jazz a HUGE boost off the bench, I just think that boost might not come until midseason or so, but once he gets his legs fully under him, watch out because suddenly the Jazz will have a dynamic bench (w/1 wing and 1 big capable of filling it up) and numerous lineups to use during crunch-time.

Nobody with the Jazz will speculate, but if I had to guess, I'd say Memo comes back sometime between Dec 13th and Jan 1st.

 

[carolinajazz]

...of course it will improve out rebounding! He's a tall, big space eater...he boxes out fairly well....he's got long arms. The big question is how will his presence effect our offense? If he can shoot those 3's are a fairly nice clip....then we should be in business!

 

[memo is money]

At first thought most people would say no. I mean he only averages 7 rebounds per game. How could he help the team rebounding when Millsap and Jefferson are both better at rebounding than Okur. If you asked me a couple years ago I would say Okur does not help our rebounding.

Than after watching Fesenko (I have been a homer for all of these years) and seeing how well he boxed out his man or at least took up enough space so they could not get offensive rebounds. I started to realize Fesenko takes up enough space so our team can get rebounds.

Than I started to realize well why was Boozer getting so many more rebounds than Millsap and Jefferson. Boozer pushed people in the back all the time and he was always out of position but he still ended up with 10 plus boards.

I have been a hater of Okur for years because I thought we relied on the 3 way too much when he was in the game. But I have to give credit where its due and after thinking about it I think Okur boxed out his man very very well. He might not have got the rebound but he did not allow the Biggest man on the opposing team to get the rebound either. He always stayed in front of his man and it allowed boozer to jump in front and grab rebounds.

Jefferson and Millsap do not box out like they should. And hopefully Okur will help that once he comes back. Boxing out the center is very important so hopefully Okur can improve the team rebounding when he comes back.

Agree or Disagree?

Well, you are good to realise that the Jazz would not be same productive team without Memo and they, no way, relied on 3s when Okur was on the floor. If you mentioned the shot selections, offensive sets of Jazz in crunch time, then I recommend you to check the crunch time productivity stats of several players who are known as "clutch performers" and compare their efficiency in clutch with Memo's. It's also known that Memo's offensive repertoire and style was a big reason of the efficiency of Jazz system throughout years. I do not question why you hate Okur, I could care less, however the reason you brought up there is not true, IMO. Memo was supposed to be the perimeter player, allowing cutters, postman and most importantly Deron to execute their roles more effectively by giving rooms to operate. This was/is not his fault. When teams figured out that Memo stays on the perimeter too much and his movement off the ball is not as good, they started to put smaller guys on him to decrease his effect on the offense. He expanded his game and added some post moves and dribbling to his game. I think, overally he has become a player who reacts to the defense and takes what it gives to him. That's one of the most important qualities to have in Jazz offense.

Back to the main argument, I agree with you, %100. Our rebounding rate is terrible, at %47s.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Okur used to get over 11 rebs./game in the playoffs. He's a good fundamental rebounder when he focuses on it.

 

[Twin Towers]

Well, you are good to realise that the Jazz would not be same productive team without Memo and they, no way, relied on 3s when Okur was on the floor. If you mentioned the shot selections, offensive sets of Jazz in crunch time, then I recommend you to check the crunch time productivity stats of several players who are known as "clutch performers" and compare their efficiency in clutch with Memo's. It's also known that Memo's offensive repertoire and style was a big reason of the efficiency of Jazz system throughout years. I do not question why you hate Okur, I could care less, however the reason you brought up there is not true, IMO. Memo was supposed to be the perimeter player, allowing cutters, postman and most importantly Deron to execute their roles more effectively by giving rooms to operate. This was/is not his fault. When teams figured out that Memo stays on the perimeter too much and his movement off the ball is not as good, they started to put smaller guys on him to decrease his effect on the offense. He expanded his game and added some post moves and dribbling to his game. I think, overally he has become a player who reacts to the defense and takes what it gives to him. That's one of the most important qualities to have in Jazz offense.

Back to the main argument, I agree with you, %100. Our rebounding rate is terrible, at %47s.

I actually don't hate Memo as a player it was more I hate when Memo is in the game and Deron is on a semi fast break and he would throw it back to Memo for a 3 rather than work it into the paint for an easier shot.

Memo is a good man to man defender and he is good at boxing out. He is a good outside shooter but I also wish memo would do the pick and pop for a mid range shot rather than a 3. It would make us more efficient because it gives us more options. When it is a pick and pop for a 3 it sometimes can limit us when we do it every time. Deron and Memo need to mix it up a little and go back in forth between the 3 and the mid range. The 3 point shot is way overrated and it leads to long rebounds and bad transition defense. Something Earl Watson talked about the Jazz being so bad at for so many years. We need to limit that from happening.

I think we are a better defensive team this year because we are taking less 3 point shots. We are trying to get into the paint more with Millsap and Jefferson. If we go back to trying to set up Okur before we go into the paint our transition defense will suffer. The 3 point shot should come after we worked it into the paint. The 3 point shot should not be the first option like we use Okur. That is my problem with him on the court we rely on him too much rather than a role player.

 

[InGameStrategy]

I don't recall Okur being a particularly good rebounder or boxing out particularly; he's averaged about 7 RBs per 30 minutes (not that it's easy to get boards when Boozer sometimes camps out in the paint and even nudges teammates out of the way). If he was a good rebounder, it was because he let the driving man go right by him and then he boxed out and the shot still happened to miss.

Evaluating Okur's rebounding is not a complete way to look at his impact. He is a good clutch player and he spreads the defense, but I don't buy his defense. The aforementioned one time that he had double-digit RBs in the playoffs was probably a year in which he played against the Rockets. Oh--and that was three years ago, when he wasn't in his 30s and hadn't had achilles tendon injury.

To me the question is whether Okur will be more effective than Elson, not Jefferson, because there's no way that AJ (especially the new AJ who actually catches passes and moves his feet and boxes out) is going to be displaced by a thirtysomething Turk with torero defense (as opposed to Bozzer's matador D). Just because Okur is good at the long ball doesn't mean that it makes up for his traditionally poor help defense. As for man-on D, I don't see it being any better than Elson nor probably Fes.

If Sloan swapped in Okur for either of the big men in the second unit, it would probably slow the lineup down. With Watson and Price zipping around the court (and sometimes stealing balls & blocking shots like tonight), the last thing that they need is for Memo to drag along. Slowkur is not gonna help with open-court defense; just ask Stephon Marbury (who dribbled right past him years ago for the game-winning shot). What I predict that will happen, though, is that MO will take some of Elson's minutes and most of Fes's, which could hurt the Jazz in both cases come playoff time, as both backup C's have proven to be able to contribute against contenders.

That being said, Okur is one of the the first Jazzmen that I'd like to be, because he has a hot wife, cute kids, a fast car, and the adoration of the entire former Ottoman Empire (Turkey).

 

[NUMBERICA]

Offensive rebounding, yes. Defensive rebounding, no.

Without looking up numbers, how does a guy who's primarily a perimeter player on offense and the guy in the paint the most on defense going to help our offensive rebounds?

 

[vj_74]

Will Okur improve our chemistry? That's what I am worried about. We have a nice thing going with the second unit and for a couple of weeks after he gets back everything will be messed up. Jazz will have to re-develop their chemistry and comfort zone all over again. I still look back at the Boozer come back the year before late in the season when it messed us up really bad. Elson and Fess will take the hits in minutes and maybe Millsap too. In the long run and for the playoffs Okur is good to have depending on how healthy he is. In the short term, it might mess up things a bit.

 

[gomretat]

No

 

[royzzz]

Will Okur improve our chemistry? That's what I am worried about. We have a nice thing going with the second unit and for a couple of weeks after he gets back everything will be messed up. Jazz will have to re-develop their chemistry and comfort zone all over again. I still look back at the Boozer come back the year before late in the season when it messed us up really bad. Elson and Fess will take the hits in minutes and maybe Millsap too. In the long run and for the playoffs Okur is good to have depending on how healthy he is. In the short term, it might mess up things a bit.

I clearly see your point - Memo will mess things a bit short term. But as long as long term the Jazz will be better then that's ok.

Options here, as already pointed out, Fess' or Elson's minutes will take a hit. Probably Big Al too but I think not much on MSap.
Then there's the 4Q lineup that will close the game .. who will be in? Of course, it all depends on who's the opponent but think of a lineup of Big Al, MSap, Memo, AK and DWill.

 

[NAOS]

Here is how I see Memo's minutes adding up:

Right now AK is averaging 33.8 mpg, Millsap is at 35.7 mpg, and AJ is at 35.8 mpg. I'd like to see each of these figures tick down to closer to 30... let's say there are 6.5 minutes that Memo can drain from these guys.

Right now Fes is getting 8.8 mpg, some of which I honestly feel like he is not earning. He's been pretty ineffective since the 2nd or 3rd week of the season. I think all of his minutes are in jeopardy.

Right now Elson is averaging 11.1 mpg, and I think he's quickly establishing himself in this kind of role. I see these minutes as firm or rising.

There is also the scenario where the Jazz play big, moving Millsap over to the 3, AJ to the 4, and Memo at the 5. This scenario would probably dip into Raja's minutes (28.6 mpg) and the scraps that Hayward is getting.

Summing this up, I see Memo with a maximum of 20.3mpg and a minimum of 12mpg. This is all just approximation, obviously, but I see him getting the minimum of this scale for a little while.

 

[carolinajazz]

Without looking up numbers, how does a guy who's primarily a perimeter player on offense and the guy in the paint the most on defense going to help our offensive rebounds?

....yeah, I'm with you on this one. The duck just doesn't know his basketball!

 

[carolinajazz]

I clearly see your point - Memo will mess things a bit short term. But as long as long term the Jazz will be better then that's ok.

....I don't think Sloan will let Memo mess things up...short or long term! We insert Memo as we see fit....if he starts to mess up....we pull him just like we would pull any other player that's hurting us on the court! We've got a good thing going right now....Sloan and Johnson know this...and will take every necessary step and precaution to make sure it stays that way!

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

The 3 point shot is way overrated and it leads to long rebounds and bad transition defense. Something Earl Watson talked about the Jazz being so bad at for so many years. We need to limit that from happening.

I must have missed this. Source?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He is a better rebounder than Elson or Fess, and he will be primarily taking their minutes away, so yes, it will improve our rebounding.

 

[Qman]

Here is how I see Memo's minutes adding up:

Right now AK is averaging 33.8 mpg, Millsap is at 35.7 mpg, and AJ is at 35.8 mpg. I'd like to see each of these figures tick down to closer to 30... let's say there are 6.5 minutes that Memo can drain from these guys.

Right now Fes is getting 8.8 mpg, some of which I honestly feel like he is not earning. He's been pretty ineffective since the 2nd or 3rd week of the season. I think all of his minutes are in jeopardy.

Right now Elson is averaging 11.1 mpg, and I think he's quickly establishing himself in this kind of role. I see these minutes as firm or rising.

There is also the scenario where the Jazz play big, moving Millsap over to the 3, AJ to the 4, and Memo at the 5. This scenario would probably dip into Raja's minutes (28.6 mpg) and the scraps that Hayward is getting.

Summing this up, I see Memo with a maximum of 20.3mpg and a minimum of 12mpg. This is all just approximation, obviously, but I see him getting the minimum of this scale for a little while.

At first I see Memo just taking all of Fess's minutes with the second unit. A 2nd unit of Watson, Price, CJ, Elson and Memo I can see the second unit being playing more of the 2nd and 4th quarters. So maybe 10-15 minutes a game for Memo.

After Memo has been playing for a month or two I expect we will see him coming in with CJ at 3 minute mark of 1st quarter. He will replace Millsap or Jefferson depending matchups and foul trouble. If the bench is playing well Sloan will leave them in until the 6 minute mark of the 2nd. I see the same pattern happening in the 4th quarter.

So that is about 18 minutes a game unless there is foul trouble.

The concern I have about this is Elson has been coming in adding a lot of defensive energy. I don't want to take away his minutes or role. Also AK is a great matchup for when other teams go small. All in all it is a good problem to have. Also Memo should be able kill over teams backup units.