Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?

[Joe Bagadonuts]

You should praise a politician for telling the truth. He gets points for that.

But you don't see a problem with foreign entities influencing elections?

I am not foolish enough to believe that a successful politician is going to be in the habit of turning down dirt on their opponent, regardless of the source. I find this whole sanctity of the election angle to be a manufactured and self-serving attack. Not only do I believe that Trump's opponents in both 2016 and 2020 would also listen to foreign sources, I know that they have. For example, where did the dossier originate?

 

[Red]

But you don't see a problem with foreign entities influencing elections?

I've noticed, ever since it was established that our chief post WWII adversary interfered in our 2016 election, that some people either don't understand the notion of national sovereignty, or don't care, especially if it's their guy who's benefiting from that violation of our sovereignty. Or, if they do claim to object to his character, agreeing with his policies allows them to accept his character flaws, and even forgive attacks on our elections.

And, while I recognize our own CIA has interfered in the internal politics of other nations, I still believe it's a good, and proper, response to defend one's nation when it is attacked. And interfering in our free election was in fact an attack. But, that too means nothing, or is simply not recognized, by all citizens. As well, I think a not insignificant percentage of the electorate, prefer an autocratic executive. And we know now that that certainly includes AG Barr.

 

[Harambe]

I am not foolish enough to believe that a successful politician is going to be in the habit of turning down dirt on their opponent, regardless of the source. I find this whole sanctity of the election angle to be a manufactured and self-serving attack. Not only do I believe that Trump's opponents in both 2016 and 2020 would also listen to foreign sources, I know that they have. For example, where did the dossier originate?

I still think you're missing my point. We should NOT praise our politicians for this behavior. This SHOULD NOT be a thing. I'm not naive enough to think most candidates wouldn't accept dirt on their opponents. I feel like we should prefer our politicians not to encourage OR use it.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Let’s pretend that the Rockets GM hacked into the Memphis’s server. They stole their entire FO’s communications. The Rockets, through a series of secretaries and hot dog salesmen then contact the Jazz and tell them that they have “dirt” on the Grizzlies. Dennis Lindsey’s assistant/son responds, “if it’s what you say it is, I love it” and meet with these representatives from the Rockets.

When caught, Dennis writes a dishonest denial about the whole thing. And then blames the law enforcement for investigating.

Memphis and law enforcement tell the public that their servers have been hacked and their FO information has been compromised.

Then, during the summer, Dennis publicly invites the Rockets to find these missing emails and produce them so that everyone in the NBA can know what the Grizzlies FO thinks. “The American media will reward you very much!”

One day, a bad video of Dennis bragging about sexually harassing women comes out. Through Wikileaks, the Rockets release these emails and clutchfans members retweet this information nonstop, thus turning the focus away from Dennis’s sexual harassment and compromising the Grizzlies summer and hindering their franchise for years to come.

The Jazz are then able to trade for Conley and 10 1st round picks for Bradley and a bag of stale half eaten chips. The Jazz give those 10 first round picks to the Rockets, benefitting the two teams at the expense of Memphis.

And now after 2.5 years of denying that the Dennis received help from Houston, Dennis admits that if given the opportunity, he’d do it again because it’s not wrong and “everyone else” does this.

How could anybody be cool with this? It’s unethical. Putin I mean Houston can burn in Hell. I don’t care what Houston offers us, **** them and **** clutchfans. And if we permit cheating to our benefit today, what happens tomorrow when the Lakers decide to cheat and end up putting a team together of Lebron, Spida, Curry, Zion, Kawhi, Harris, George, Gobert, and the ghost of Dirk Nowitski’s past?

Are you going to hog all that weed you're smoking or are you going to pass it around?

 

[Deleted member 365]

I am not foolish enough to believe that a successful politician is going to be in the habit of turning down dirt on their opponent, regardless of the source. I find this whole sanctity of the election angle to be a manufactured and self-serving attack. Not only do I believe that Trump's opponents in both 2016 and 2020 would also listen to foreign sources, I know that they have. For example, where did the dossier originate?

1. Do you seriously not see any difference between the Russian and the British governments with regards to American interests, human rights, and democratic norms?

2. Do you see no difference between hiring a private firm for research and using stolen data from a server that a hostile government illegally obtained?

3. You understand that the counter-intelligence operation began not with the Steele dossier but when the ambassador of one of our allies notified law enforcement of a potential national security threat after Trump’s George Papadopoulos admitted to him that they had Russian contacts, right? What should our allies do next time? Not tell our FBI? What should the FBI do next time? Not conduct counter-investigations?

Eliminating these lines of right and wrong is exactly what authoritarian regimes like Putin’s want.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I still think you're missing my point. We should NOT praise our politicians for this behavior. This SHOULD NOT be a thing. I'm not naive enough to think most candidates wouldn't accept dirt on their opponents. I feel like we should prefer our politicians not to encourage OR use it.

I disagree.

I think most candidates for public office up until this point in American history would’ve told Russian toadies to **** off. Clinton and Nixon look like saints compared to the corruption we see on a daily basis today.

 

[Red]

1. Do you seriously not see any difference between the Russian and the British governments with regards to American interests, human rights, and democratic norms?

2. Do you see no difference between hiring a private firm for research and using stolen data from a server that a hostile government illegally obtained?

3. You understand that the counter-intelligence operation began not with the Steele dossier but when the ambassador of one of our allies notified law enforcement of a potential national security threat after Trump’s George Papadopoulos admitted to him that they had Russian contacts, right? What should our allies do next time? Not tell our FBI? What should the FBI do next time? Not conduct counter-investigations?

Eliminating these lines of right and wrong is exactly what authoritarian regimes like Putin’s want.

As the president's tweet, that you posted, made clear, the president and his team are once again engaged in damage control:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics/donald-trump-spy-election-2020-foreign-government/index.html

Another perhaps pertinent question is to ask if Christopher Steele was employed as an agent of the British government or British intelligence service at the time he put together his dossier? I'm pretty sure Mueller demonstrated those Russians employing both hacking activities and disinformation campaigns on social media were Russian agents. Steele was a private individual conducting opposition research, first for Republicans, then for Democrats.

 

[Harambe]

I disagree.

I think most candidates for public office up until this point in American history would’ve told Russian toadies to **** off.

We disagree! That's ok.

I think we do agree that this is our stage, and international entities shouldn't have a part to play.

 

[Deleted member 365]

We disagree! That's ok.

I think we do agree that this is our stage, and international entities shouldn't have a part to play.

1. I feel like we’ve never seen such an immoral narcissist, like trump, in any public office. The guy literally doesn’t give a **** about the office he holds or about the country. All he cares about is himself and the present moment. No thought of the greater good or future. Even Nixon, Hoover, Harding, Johnson, and Jackson weren’t this corrupt.

2. Never before has there been such a well established apparatus of disinformation in America. If Nixon had cover from am radio, Fox News, and social media, he would’ve never been impeached. The echo chamber that feeds 35 percent of Americans crap news and intimidates republicans from speaking out against Trump emboldens (Republican) politicians to do what was unthinkable just a few years ago.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I still think you're missing my point. We should NOT praise our politicians for this behavior. This SHOULD NOT be a thing. I'm not naive enough to think most candidates wouldn't accept dirt on their opponents. I feel like we should prefer our politicians not to encourage OR use it.

Politics is a dirty business, and power-hungry narcissists who are willing to do whatever they must to prevail are the ones who almost always rise to the top. We can wish that the world worked differently, but I don't see any reason to expect that it will ever change.

 

[fishonjazz]

I still think you're missing my point. We should NOT praise our politicians for this behavior. This SHOULD NOT be a thing. I'm not naive enough to think most candidates wouldn't accept dirt on their opponents. I feel like we should prefer our politicians not to encourage OR use it.

This

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[Harambe]

Politics is a dirty business, and power-hungry narcissists who are willing to do whatever they must to prevail are the ones who almost always rise to the top. We can wish that the world worked differently, but I don't see any reason to expect that it will ever change.

Changing a culture is a long, terrible process. Dancing with Elephants(I guess donky's too) is not an easy, or simple task. None the less, it's imperative that we follow through.