Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gameface, Jan 19, 2019.

Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?

  1. Yes

    82.1%
  2. No

    17.9%
  1. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    OK, I appreciate you taking the time to spell out your reasons for supporting Trump.

    Sorry for still another "novel", but I'll try and make this my last effort to describe my perspective.

    I believe we are a sovereign nation. From Wikipedia: Sovereignty is the full right and power of a governing body over itself, without any interference from outside sources or bodies. In political theory, sovereignty is a substantive term designating supreme authority over some polity.

    John McCain was very blunt in describing Russian interference in our sovereignty. He called it an "act of war". He was describing it that way in 2016.

    I understand that the United States has interfered in the sovereignty of other nations. Some of the impetus behind the exodus from the so-called Northern Triangle of Central American nations can be traced to our own interference there in the 20th century.

    Nonetheless, I find I cannot just apply the "what goes around, comes around" perspective to Russian interference in our sovereignty as a nation, even as I have been, at times, an opponent of our own imperial machinations during my lifetime. Too many friends killed, or tormented for the remainder of their lives, because of the Vietnam war, for instance.

    Donald Trump fought tooth and nail to not apply sanctions against Russia for their blatant interference in our sovereignty and in the central institution of our political system: our elections. Donald Trump stood before the world, with Putin smiling at his side, at Helsinki, and pronounced he chose to believe Putin when told that Putin and Russia had not interfered in those 2016 elections.

    Nobody ever said we need to go to war with Russia. But to not defend the nation he was elected to lead, as the Commander in Chief, was to let down every American who expected our head of state to represent our nation. He failed.

    And despite his Big Lie of "total and complete exoneration", and yes, I mean Big Lie in the Orwellian sense, we have every right, as citizens of the United States, to understand the source reasons for this deference to the leader of a mafia state who makes no secret of his desire to weaken Western liberal democracies. Whatever our flaws, including those of our political leadership, (if one chooses to view the Clintons as the epitome of corruption, for example), they are OUR flaws, and we cannot simply lay down meekly while our chief geopolitical foe for the past 70 years, commits, as McCain said, an "act of war": to interfere in our sovereignty as a nation.

    I expect our president to act in our interest in the face of such an attack. For reasons of his own, he has consistently behaved as if defending his nation goes against his grain, where Putin and Russia is concerned. I find that unacceptable, and I want to know exactly what is behind this deference. I do not accept his Big Lie.
     
  2. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Completely exonerated, right?!

     
  3. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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    I can accept that as a valid point of view and understand where you are coming from. Sometimes I am just having a little fun with this, or Trolling as some would say. I too would like to know if he was doing something seriously wrong as president. So I want to know whats in the report as well.
     
  4. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

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    It's entirely possible you have a completely unknown, unexamined, and altered brain structure; that you live without a Type I brain response system and yet can still drive on a Type II only, when for every other person on earth Type II is too slow for activities like walking, driving, etc. It's also possible you are falling into the extremely common fallacy of believing yourself to be rational, when in fact you are reacting without thinking like every one else who has the Type I system.

    Agreed.

    Anyone can use math to prove anything. Math is a formal system. It takes the input assumptions and produces an output. I believe the math, but we disagree on the input assumptions.

    I could put up dozens of links, but if you look into this on your own, you can find it easily enough.
     
  5. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Great thread:

     
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  6. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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  7. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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    You sure are a die hard conspiracy theorist.
     
  8. Red

    Red Well-Known Member

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    You're a smart fella. Put your thinking cap on and give it some thought.

    And that's the only answer you'll get from me....
     
  9. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Complete exoneration, right?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...cc9440-54b9-11e9-814f-e2f46684196e_story.html
     
  10. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    But but but... Assange and Wikileaks are all about transparency! They’re not trying to hurt America and help Russia by helping trump win. They just want transparency. They’re not a political actor, they’re the free press!

     
  11. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    These are words of an innocent person if I’ve ever seen it.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2019
  12. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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  13. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

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    The ********* that is the Mueller report.

    Collusion isn't a crime. Conspiracy is. The report does reveal that, in secret, members of Team Trump(Manafort certainly) working with Russians(Kiliminik) and trading information in an effort to influence midwest Democrat votes. That seems like a conspiracy to obtain the presidency to me.

    Several outlined instances of Team Trump straight obstructing and influencing what witnesses will say.

    https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

    If Donald Trump were Joe the Plumber, he'd be drawn and quartered. Why isn't he?
     
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  14. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    In before hack says "because he is Teflon Don"

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
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  15. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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    ebd386d2-19a5-411b-bb46-489a148e42db-GTY_1138443418.jpeg
     
  16. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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    Because he didnt commit crimes.

    Why isnt Hillary in jail?
     
  17. NPC D4617

    NPC D4617 Well-Known Member

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    150549.png
     
  18. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

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    She didn't commit crimes. Else she'd be in jail, right?

    I mean, her crimes are clearly numerous that many investigations have proven.

    Right?
     
  19. firegirl

    firegirl Well-Known Member

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    The Mueller report doesn't matter. No one is changing their opinions. Both sides are incapable of seeing beyond their own beliefs.

    The end.

    Can't we just talk about how great Seinfeld was and share favorite scenes?
     
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