Without Kanter

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by QuinSnydersHair, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. QuinSnydersHair

    QuinSnydersHair Well-Known Member

    Feb 11, 2013

    82.8 points allowed per game.
    Bodhi and addictionary like this.
  2. Jazzsneaker From China

    Jazzsneaker From China Well-Known Member

    Jan 9, 2015
    Get more win guys
  3. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

    Jun 3, 2010
    Well, to be fair, OKC has a similar record WITH Kanter. Jazz starters are struggling to score without Enes. Hayward has been reverting to last season's form because he's again trying to do too much and force the action. And that's understandable when he he has Gobert, Dante and Ingles in the game. That leaves just Hayward and Favors as real offensive threats. Jazz are easy to defend. But they often make up for it defensively.
  4. Siro

    Siro Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    May 25, 2010
    It was a good trade that worked out well for all sides. I can't wait to see how well we do with Burks, a capable offensive player, and the possible FA signing. Replacing Burks with Ingles doesn't really affect our defense that much, but it will significantly improve our offensive numbers.
  5. gregbroncs

    gregbroncs Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2010
    I actually think replacing Ingles with Burks does hurt our defense while also hindering the ball movement of our team. I hope I am dead wrong on that and Burks becomes a player that fits our system. But I was not impressed by his use in this offense and his defense was sub-par and worse that Ingles'.
    vegas likes this.
  6. The Jazz Wonderbra

    The Jazz Wonderbra Well-Known Member

    Jan 20, 2012
    To be fair nothing...

    I don't really care what happens to another team as long as we improve in a trade. Other teams SHOULD get better too, otherwise they are stupid making the trade. The great thing is we SHOULD be 5 - 0. That Laker game was crap. Gordon looks meh but will be back. That has less to do with Kanter than it does to how good he looked 2 weeks ago and coming back down to earth. Dante has lost all confidence. We have had some offense look downs but we are still winning and often times BIG!

    Great trade for the Jazz. Great trade for OKC. Nicely done.
  7. Siro

    Siro Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    May 25, 2010
    I think the claim that Burks can't play within the offense is unfounded. Not only has he improved a lot in that regard, he has shown to be a very good passer. That is specially the case on his penetration, which demands a lot of attention from the other team. Added to the fact that he's a better outside shooter than Ingles, there is simply no doubt that he would be a significant upgrade at the 2. I mean come on. We're talking about Ingles.
  8. gregbroncs

    gregbroncs Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2010
    I think Ingles is the most underrated player on this team. His defense annoys the opponent. While he's not super athletic or fast the other team gets pissed off at Ingles because of the way he plays defense. You can't say that about Burks. Hell Burks is invisible on defense most of the time and is definitely weak on that end of the floor.
    Further more while Burks looked to be improving and his outside shot is better than Ingles, Ingles straight makes passes and gets assists that Burks doesn't. He moves the ball better and he attacks the paint to make those passes just like Burks. The difference with Ingles he is a willing and natural passer and Burks is neither. Now Burks is better offensively, I'm not saying he's not. I'm just not sure he's all that much better overall. I also think Burks would be much better leading the 2nd unit instead of Trey.
  9. candrew

    candrew Well-Known Member

    May 29, 2010
    Since the trade Hayward is shooting 35%/20% - and he's taking more shots to score less points. And his turnovers have almost doubled. Not exactly a shock when you trade the second most talented offensive player on the team for zero immediate return.

    Interestingly, Favors FGA per game hasn't moved an inch since the trade - still at 12 per.
  10. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

    Jun 3, 2010
    Snyder experimented a bit with Hayward and Burks at the beginning of the season. Gordon often came out early while Burks stayed in, then vice versa. Gordon playing the entire first with Alec being the first out worked much better. We'll see if that strategy is still employed. Part of it is I think Snyder wanted Alec in the game to help Trey with ballhandling. Now that's changed because Exum is starting.

    In any case, as much as we like Ingles, he just isn't a threat offensively. It's as much about building around Gobert (and Favors) as anything else. Neither of those two have a lot of range. And chances are, Rudy is never going to be a threat outside 8-ft. Favors is also not a strecth-4, but he has a very reliable mid-range game. So we need shooters at the other 3 spots. Hayward qualifies as one. Maybe not as strong from the 3 as we'd like, but he has a ton of other skills, including getting to the line. We really need our PG and SG to be 3PT bombers. I'm not too concerned about a PG to run the offense: Hayward does that. But we need 3PT threats to open up the inside.
  11. green

    green Well-Known Member

    May 27, 2010
    Snell for Burke solves our problems. And adding a vet PG.
  12. stitches

    stitches Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2014
    Yep, that needs to change. Favors needs to be taking more of the offensive load, the problem is that the spacing is not perfect and the paint gets clogged. I suspect that hinders Hayward on his drives too... Way too many bodies in there with Gobert's defender never leaving the area around the paint.
  13. Nate505

    Nate505 Modstapo Lite Staff Member

    May 25, 2010
    So without Kanter the Jazz's best player is regressing and the Jazz are still 4-1, beating 3 playoff teams in that stretch, and thus proving what a cancer Kanter was to the team
  14. jope

    jope Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2010
    Those are fine observations, but empirically, Burks' win shares per minute are 37.5% higher than Ingles'. I think people have forgotten how dynamic Alec could be, and how just having him as another legit offensive threat on the floor opens up so much for the entire team. I think its a safe bet to say we will improve with him replacing Joe in the starting lineup.
    Stifle Tower likes this.
  15. bezerkus

    bezerkus Well-Known Member

    Feb 5, 2014
  16. Dr. Jones

    Dr. Jones In pursuit of #9 Contributor

    Jun 23, 2010
  17. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

    Jun 3, 2010
    I agree with your points that Ingles is a better passer and defender. However, that's what we have Gobert, Favors and Exum for: defense. The problem with going all defense is just as we've seen in the post-Kanter era, we're prone to stretches where no one can score. That's all fine and dandy if our defense is forcing TO's and we're getting some fast break points. But if they don't, we can be beaten by even the dregs of the league. Utah has difficulty scoring in the half-court offense when the starters are in. Our only hope is usually to substitute Trey for Dante and tell him to be Kobe out there.

    Portland was a very good win, but SA came in really struggling and Denver is barely better than a DLeague team. Lost to the Lakers and should have won vs. Milwaukee because the game was at home. The Bucks are probably about as good as we are now. They're strong defensively, but have players struggling on offense. Jazz need 3&D players in the backcourt to complement our strong, defensive frontcourt and provide spacing.
  18. framer

    framer Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2010
    By far the most impressive stat since Kanter's departure is that the Jazz have moved up from #27 in defensive efficiency to #23 in FIVE GAMES!
  19. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

    May 27, 2010
    Hayward just in a mini-slump. He will get back on track.
  20. dong2ha

    dong2ha Premium Jazz Fan Contributor

    May 18, 2011
    not worried about hayward at all he will be fine

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