Without Kanter

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by QuinSnydersHair, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. Jazz Insider

    Jazz Insider Banned

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    so... jazz aint tryin to tank anymore? ok
     
  2. MT Steve

    MT Steve Well-Known Member Contributor

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    For what its worth, over the past five games our offensive rating has been 101.4, good for 20th in the NBA, but our defensive rating has been 87.4... good for 1st in the NBA. By a lot. The gap between 87.4 and the current #1 defensive team is larger than the gap between the #1 defensive team and the #29 defensive team.

    When you compare our ratings per game to our opponents average ratings for the year, it paints an even rosier picture. The Jazz, on average, are scoring 0.94 less points per 100 possessions than their opponents typically allow... and holding their opponents to an insane 14.8 less points per 100 possessions than their opponents typically score.

    So very small sample size, but since we're all trying to speculate on the Jazz w/o Kanter, so far, the offense has fallen off a bit - not much, but a bit. The improvement on defense is offsetting it several times over.

    EDIT:

    I decided to also include the 4 other games Gobert started this season. Over those 9 games, the Jazz offensive rating is 104.7 (good for 11th in the NBA) and the defensive rating is 93.2 (1st in the NBA by a wide margin).

    Taking into consideration the offensive and defensive ratings of their opponents during those 9 games, the Jazz, on average, are scoring 2.1 more points per 100 possessions than their opponents typically allow, and they are holding their opponents to 8.8 less points per 100 possessions than their opponents typically score.

    Honestly the most bizarre thing about this data is that the Jazz allowed 3 of their 9 opponents to post a better offensive rating than their average, and all 3 of those teams are lottery teams. Might indicate an issue with getting up for weaker opponents.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
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  3. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    This.
    Burks did fine in our offensive system this year especially considering how little time he had in it.
     
  4. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

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    Great post, KD.
    Perhaps we can survive by just getting some offensive improvement from Gobert and Exum and inserting Burks into the lineup. However, I'm a bit hesitant to declare our offense is okay in the post-Kanter era. Trey has been playing out of his mind of late. Averages suggest it is not sustainable.
     
  5. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Averages sure.

    But upon his benching and leading the second unit he began to produce immediately. I think as long as he is against second units he will continue to shine.
     
  6. NAOS

    NAOS Well-Known Member

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    Is anybody claiming that our offense is okay? Did anybody claim that it was okay when Kanter was in there? I sure as hell hope the answer to both of those questions is a resounding No. The bottom line, for me, is that the eyeball test indicates we took a big step in the right direction when we traded Kanter.

    As for our offense, we need big improvement at three positions: 1, 2, and 5. (FWIW, I would have said something very similar before the Kanter trade, and I would have named Kanter as a candidate for improvement; his offense is waaaay overrated by some on JFC).

    *Obviously the 5 spot is Rudy's. So, you're counting on him to improve.
    *I think the starting 1 will be Exum for the rest of this season, and I think it'll be his to lose next season. So, you're obviously counting on him to improve
    *The other guard/wing needs to complement Hayward. What kind of player complements Hayward? I think this guy needs to help create offense, spread the floor, and TAKE shots. Special bonus points if he can really defend. Neither Ingles nor Burks is a great fit here, to be honest. Wes Matthews would be a great fit. Wes Matthews would be a huge upgrade offensively.

    The offense is a long ways off.
     
  7. MT Steve

    MT Steve Well-Known Member Contributor

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    So I decided to look into the offense a little bit more, and found something else that's pretty interesting.

    The Jazz are shooting extremely well in the 9 games Gobert has started. In fact, their true shooting percentage would be top 10 in the NBA (54.7%).

    The problem is they are turning the ball over on a staggering 16.9% of their possessions. That is roughly 1 turnover for every 6 possessions. And turnovers are a double edged sword, because they often lead to easy fastbreak points for the other team. Frankly, it's remarkable how amazing the defense has been given all the turnovers.
     
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  8. Stifle Tower

    Stifle Tower Punch Bowl Re-Filler

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    No argument from me, NAOS. Gobert is THE ANSWER at the 5. His stifling defense compensates for whatever he doesn't do on offense. If he never develops beyond put-backs and alley-oop dunks, that would be ok (obviously I hope he can eventually do more). He's our franchise player. I also think Favors and Hayward have shown enough to have them be part of the core. So if the Jazz are to build around those 3, they need improvement at the 1 and 2, specifically guys who can hit 3's. You may be correct that Burks is not the answer. Matthews does seem like he'd be a great fit as a FA. Burks could then come off the bench or be traded.

    As for PG, I'm not sure what the answer is. Dante is giving Utah very little right now. But it's too early to give up on him. Burke APPEARS to have taken a step forward but is still ignoring everyone else when he plays. If the right veteran were available, I'd probably say trade for him and make Dante earn his playing time.
     
  9. QuinSnydersHair

    QuinSnydersHair Well-Known Member

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    I really want to see if we can go til the end of the season holding opponents to under 90 on average.

    That would be 29 games without Kanter if my math is right. And if we can go that long holding teams to under 90 on average, wow, just wow.

    Memphis is first this year at 95.7. The Bulls were first last year at 91.8. Memphis led the year before at 89.3. The Bulls before that at 88.2. So yeah, under 90 per game is crazy elite, no matter the pace.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  10. vegas

    vegas Well-Known Member

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    I was listening to pregame before the Bucks and Locke looked up I believe defensive pts per 100 possessions. He said the Robinson/Duncan spurs were the greatest defensive team ever. They were 90.X in a 56 game lockout season. The Jazz over the past five are like 85.X. Locke was chatting himself as he looked it up on air.

    It started because Britton Johnson was comparing Faves and Rudy to the Robinson/Duncan combo defensively, so Locke had to check the stats. I will post up if I can find the exact numbers.
     
  11. Dr. Jones

    Dr. Jones In pursuit of #9 Contributor

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    Guys on this page.. please post shorter responses. Thanks.
     
  12. Pintz11

    Pintz11 Active Member

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    Well Okc is doing just fine with him.. Tonight he dropped 15 15 5assist.. Ballin
     
  13. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

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    Impressive #'s
     
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  14. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    ok
     
  15. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    I want to see Gobert face up when he gets the ball free-throw-line extended, and then take the freaking jump shot they give him every game. He has that shot every time he touches the ball there, I say let him shoot it. He is a decent free throw shooter and I bet we can expect a good 40%+ rate from that spot on the floor which would be enough to start drawing his man defensively away from the basket.
     
  16. Jeffrey32

    Jeffrey32 Well-Known Member

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    Still wish Jazz would have gotten McGary in the deal or even Lamb.
     
  17. LifeOnaPlate

    LifeOnaPlate Well-Known Member

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    The more assists Kanter gets for OKC the more I think he really was just being a selfish jerk with the ball while in Utah.
     
  18. LifeOnaPlate

    LifeOnaPlate Well-Known Member

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    It'll be interesting to see if Kanter starts seeing dollar signs and gets a big offer from the Hornets or some other bottom feeder team and splits, putting up big numbers for a perpetual loser. Frankly I hope that happens.
     
  19. Sexual Favors

    Sexual Favors Well-Known Member

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    It was actually 16 pts. On 6/10 shooting with 6 FTA's.


    Since the trade, his FG% has climbed to 57%, and he's been averaging 15.8 pts, 10.2 rebs. 2.2 ast, and has been getting to the line 6x a game. Also, he is doing this on 10.3 FGA's a game. Already, two of his deficient areas are seeing a big improvement when he is surrounded by a group of people that believe in him (assists and FTA's). His entire tenure here, Jazz never had a decent PG.


    Each team is performing well after the trade, but our offense is painful to endure. Defense is superb, though. Enes' post Jazz performance only solidifies my feelings that he was mismanaged, and that the trade was done at the most inopportune time, making our return seem criminal.



    Something to think about:

    Hayward wanted out of Utah after the 13-14' season. I theorize it was due to Ty, our team sucking, but most importantly because of what it was doing to him on the offensive end made him look like a scrub when he wasn't. Now that he is again the sole focal point of the offense and struggling, the Jazz need to find someone else who is a reliable scorer, ASAP, or he could be tempted to slip town instead of opting in to his final year on his contract. I know that we are a much better team than we were in 13-14, but Hayward wants accolades. He wants to be an all-star. He can't be an all-star if he's seen as offensively deficient again. This offseason will say a lot about this front office.
     
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  20. Saint Cy of JFC

    Saint Cy of JFC Well-Known Member

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    Link to your bold declaration of BS? No one thought Hayward was a total scrub. Somebody offered him a max contract and people wanted to sign him but knew Utah would match any offer so they didn't bother.

    Since OKC has traded for Kanter they have lost their games against playoff teams (2 games (and one of those is a 25-34 Indiana team)) and won vs. non-playoff teams (4 games). In short, OKC has played a ****ing easy schedule since acquiring Kanter.

    Trey Burke has turned into a sharp-shooting PG with a sweet floater since the trade vs. much tougher competition.

    Burke > Kanter


    *Beat Indiana, super bad playoff team*

    *Lost to Phoenix* Pretty good non-playoff team

    Kanter can beat ****ty opponents. Nothing is new.
     

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