Worst Move? Drafting Hayward over George or Burks over Leonard?

[b_line]

I agree with most of what you say, but you have to admit that it seems like Hayward is reluctant to try to shoot the ball, especially if he is missing early. I hate chuckers, but you have to admire someone like George who knows he has to go out there and stay aggressive for his team to win. Hayward doesn't have the same mentality at this stage.

George was also given the greenlight ant 38 minutes per game. He was the sole offensive centerpiece of that team with Danny Granger out with injuries. I think Hayward could be that guy too. He is probably a little better passer, so he would get a few more assists, but he could be very good.

 

[MVP]

The guy is 21 years old. .

He turned 23 in March.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Agree. It's easy to blame Corbin, because he isn't a great coach, but Hayward has to have some level of self-motivation. We see Hayward have good games in the Jazz system, then he has some games where he takes 6 shots. That is on Hayward not being aggressive.

is it really? Or is it on a pressure to feed Al? I vividly remember the halftime reports where the coaches would say "we're doing good/bad, but we need to do a better job pushing the ball into Al so he can go to work" (paraphrasing). It seems like that was everybody's job. His own shot attempts were usually on fast breaks, or towards the end of the shot clock when the first three options had failed. I think his lack of shot attempts was due more to the design (or lack thereof) of our offense this season then his aggressiveness.

 

[b_line]

Nobody is crying first of all. You can believe whatever you want but unfortunately world wide sports media does not. Thats why George is all star and MIP and Hayward not.
Per 36min are nice to look if you checking points only but you ignoring the fact that George is better athlete, better passer, much better rebounder, better defender and plus couple inches taller. Not sure what advantages you see in Hayward to declare him better. I am not saying Jazz ... ed up as they ended up with nice player in Hayward, but only very optimistic Jazz fans are thinking that Hayward is better then George ( nothing wrong in being a bit biased - as fans we favor and overrate our players ) - ask rest of the world and you will get same results as for MIP voting.

For their careers, Hayward has been the better passer. I would say if anything, Hayward has a slight edge in passing, but it is roughly the same. Paul George is more athletic and a better rebounder. I would not say that George is a significantly better defender. Hayward can handle the ball better, and Hayward is a significantly better shooter. In fact, he shoots 5% better from three point land. That is the difference between ok and great three point shooting. The numbers do not support that George is better than Hayward at this point.

 

[b_line]

He turned 23 in March.

haha, they grow up so quick! my bad... He is still young though, and his peak is like 3-4 years away.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

George was also given the greenlight ant 38 minutes per game. He was the sole offensive centerpiece of that team with Danny Granger out with injuries. I think Hayward could be that guy too. He is probably a little better passer, so he would get a few more assists, but he could be very good.

Hayward has the green light too. Have you ever seen Hayward get pulled from the game for shooting? On the contrary, he gets pulled and sat for longer than usual when he isn't shooting.

 

[MVP]

For their careers, Hayward has been the better passer. .

since when 2.4 is better then 2.7?


How about their playoff numbers?

 

[Sexual Favors]

Nobody is crying first of all. You can believe whatever you want but unfortunately world wide sports media does not. Thats why George is all star and MIP and Hayward not.
Per 36min are nice to look if you checking points only but you ignoring the fact that George is better athlete, better passer, much better rebounder, better defender and plus couple inches taller. Not sure what advantages you see in Hayward to declare him better. I am not saying Jazz ... ed up as they ended up with nice player in Hayward, but only very optimistic Jazz fans are thinking that Hayward is better then George ( nothing wrong in being a bit biased - as fans we favor and overrate our players ) - ask rest of the world and you will get same results as for MIP voting.

I will grant you that I may have a bias, and I agree that George is a good player and deserving of this praise. I'm just saying that Hayward hasn't been given the same situation, and as such people shouldn't judge him for the decisions of others (coaches' offense and rotations). His shot attempts has more to do with the design of our offense than his aggressiveness. George and Hayward are the exact same height (6"8), but George has 11 LBS on him. Hayward is a great defender in his own right, good lateral speed, and has a Lebron like chase down block (remember his end of season shut down of Kobe in his rookie year?). Also, I think the evidence is there for Hayward being a great distributor as well.

 

[b_line]

since when 2.4 is better then 2.7?


How about their playoff numbers?

Hayward gets more assists per minute. Look at the per 36 numbers. Hayward, 3.6 assists. George 3.2. in my book, 3.6 > 3.2. That is why Hayward is a better passer, but only slightly so. Again, the per 36 numbers do not support that George is significantly better at this point. Wait a couple years, and we will see. If George turns out to be Clyde Drexler reincarnate, then you have a case. If they both have similar production still in a couple years, then you can't really call that draft a mistake.

 

[b_line]

Hayward has the green light too. Have you ever seen Hayward get pulled from the game for shooting? On the contrary, he gets pulled and sat for longer than usual when he isn't shooting.

So what is Hayward's job when he runs the offense? His job is to get the ball on the wing, look for an entry pass to the post, and then pass it back to Mo. The coaches rave about how successful he has been at it, but all they asked him to do was run that play like 3 times a game. When I say George has been given the greenlight, I mean that he is the teams primary offense. Everything goes through him. On the Jazz, that weapon is Al, Mo, Foye and Millsap. Hayward was the fifth option. He might not get pulled when he shoots, but to say that the team runs through him is a joke.

 

[NAOS]

I'm gonna do an ******* thing and leave a comment to this thread without having read any previous comments. Apologies.
...

1. I'm stone deaf to any arguments that Hayward has been better than George over the first 3 years of their careers. George has been better. There are plenty of circumstances outside of the players' control which have led to this outcome (team issues, conferences, etc.), but it's also the case that George came into the league with a better set of personal tools to find an established niche and succeed. He's been better.

2. Once you get over the past and evaluate each player going forward, then I get more and more happy with Hayward. I think after next year it will be a debate again. I think Hayward can play more roles than George, and I think his more-central role next year will demonstrate this. George will have more rebounds, but Hayward will have more assists. George will play on a better team (and, thus, have more protection). I think their scoring per 36 should be pretty similar.

3. Kawhi has thrived in a highly structured environment. He's exactly the kind of player I wish the jazz had: lockdown perimeter defense, good in transition, can **** you up with a 3pnt shot, etc. That said, we don't know what we have in Burks (the Jazz can be blamed for this). So, we can't make this evaluation yet. This judgment could be like the George-Hayward judgment: Kawhi wins hands-down in his first three years, then Burks makes the debate relevant.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Hayward was actually better of the bench, so not sure if starting would make any positive difference. He played close to 30 min - enought time to make judgement call.
Agree that it is more difficult to evaluate Burks. It is just that Leonard is so freaking good in everything he does - shooting, defense, rebounding... Alec is more like one trick pony to me so far.

product of absence of alfense.