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proposed trade for Harrison Barnes.

spycam1 said:
I do think we're reaching the point where--unless we're adding a top shelf talent at the top of the draft--we need to add more experienced pieces, not projects. Barnes fits that criteria. He's a good mixture of being young (so still, perhaps, has some unrealized potential that a coach like Snyder could develop), but also has playoff experience.

He brings perimeter defense, outside shooting (43% from 3), and a perimeter player who can play with his back to the basket--something we don't currently have. That could translate into time at the 4 with a lineup like:

Exum
Burks
Hayward
Barnes
Gobert

I think a Barnes trade is an interesting idea and not unrealistic (like signing Butler or Leonard).

I can see why GS does it, but they might prefer to do it at next year's trade deadline unless there's someone they particularly like with our pick on draft night.
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Really good points.
 
Harrison Barnes is decent but you pay a premium in this trade for a perceived value that isn't there. He also hits FA when every team will get cap space and has a high likelihood of getting a ridiculous offer. I'd rather keep our picks and max out a player like Middleton ( I think that is what it will take to get him). When the cap shifts to 90 m Barnes could easily get a 12 to 15 M per offer. These picks are much more valuable this year IMO because they will have a crazy low cap number.

If we did the trade I'd offer some form of current cap relief (not David lee) and either the OKC pick our their own pick in that order. That 2017 GSW pick has value. If Bogut can't walk by then or Curry has ankle troubles they could easily end up back in the lottery. AI will also likely be washed up at that time... I actually might not give up that pick.

My offer the OKC pick, some cap relief, a second rounder, and a euro prospect... Take it or leave it... The Black Falcon ain't all that.
 
LOL. You said AI and my mind was stuck on Allen Iverson. Took me several seconds to think of who you meant. I'm in agreement with what you said. Almost every owner is going to be throwing out money like candy dropping from a pinata. I don't see Middleton as a max player. But he and Barnes are having comparable seasons. Jazz could make an offer to Middleton without having to give up assets. Next year they won't be anywhere close to the tax so the difference in 1st year salary isn't a concern.

Draft Porzingis if he's available - or trade some seconds to move up a few spots. Then make offers to some wings, including Middleton. If no other good wings want to come over, offer the cap relief to GS (Booker + future 1st for Barnes).
 
Stifle Tower said:
Too bad Randle is hurt. Both teams could start PF's at the 3.
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Have you been watching? Booker can play the 3. Honestly what lineup would you run against the Cavs for instance. I'd put Booker on Lebron and Hayward on J.R. Smith. ie I'd play the lineup above.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Harrison Barnes is decent but you pay a premium in this trade for a perceived value that isn't there. He also hits FA when every team will get cap space and has a high likelihood of getting a ridiculous offer. I'd rather keep our picks and max out a player like Middleton ( I think that is what it will take to get him). When the cap shifts to 90 m Barnes could easily get a 12 to 15 M per offer. These picks are much more valuable this year IMO because they will have a crazy low cap number.

If we did the trade I'd offer some form of current cap relief (not David lee) and either the OKC pick our their own pick in that order. That 2017 GSW pick has value. If Bogut can't walk by then or Curry has ankle troubles they could easily end up back in the lottery. AI will also likely be washed up at that time... I actually might not give up that pick.

My offer the OKC pick, some cap relief, a second rounder, and a euro prospect... Take it or leave it... The Black Falcon ain't all that.
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home****ingrun
 
Stifle Tower said:
LOL. You said AI and my mind was stuck on Allen Iverson. Took me several seconds to think of who you meant. I'm in agreement with what you said. Almost every owner is going to be throwing out money like candy from a pinata. But if you advocate maxing Middleton and not paying $12-$15M for Barnes, isn't that the same? They're both having comparable seasons shooting-wise. Only reason for doing that would be if you expected Barnes to get even more in 2016. I don't see Middleton as a max player.
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I can't spell Iquoudoal... Igouadl... Iggy so I used AI... sorry.

The difference would be one that you aren't giving up really valuable draft assets to overpay Middleton. You would also be an extra year into his deal so it'd be closer to expiring and we have to think about reupping Favs, Hayward, and Gobert.

I'm not an advocate of Middleton per se, but I get the people who are... was just saying I'd rather pursue that avenue. I think Middleton's offense is good, but I think his defensive RPM is fluky. He doesn't strike me as a lock down guy. If his defense is really as good as RPM says then he is worth every penny of the max.

I'd rather have Demarre back than Barnes if we have to give up assets to get him. He's fairly pedestrian, but gets credit because he was a highly touted prospect... He certainly has another level, but I am not sure if its a major leap or just getting slightly better.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I can't spell Iquoudoal... Igouadl... Iggy so I used AI... sorry.

The difference would be one that you aren't giving up really valuable draft assets to overpay Middleton. You would also be an extra year into his deal so it'd be closer to expiring and we have to think about reupping Favs, Hayward, and Gobert.

I'm not an advocate of Middleton per se, but I get the people who are... was just saying I'd rather pursue that avenue. I think Middleton's offense is good, but I think his defensive RPM is fluky. He doesn't strike me as a lock down guy. If his defense is really as good as RPM says then he is worth every penny of the max.

I'd rather have Demarre back than Barnes if we have to give up assets to get him. He's fairly pedestrian, but gets credit because he was a highly touted prospect... He certainly has another level, but I am not sure if its a major leap or just getting slightly better.
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dammit, you're on point. I just sat back down to write about DeMarre. Excellent points.
 
I will say this... GS would absolutely do the deal and at least we aren't talking about Butler and Leonard which has about as much chance of happening as us trading Gobert.
 
♪alt13 said:
Have you been watching? Booker can play the 3. Honestly what lineup would you run against the Cavs for instance. I'd put Booker on Lebron and Hayward on J.R. Smith. ie I'd play the lineup above.
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Yes, I HAVE been watching. Booker brings tremendous energy, but he's not shot well, especially from 3PT range. With non-shooters in Gobert and Exum, Jazz need some players who are at least a minimal threat to score from outside. Hayward did a great job defensively on LBJ. You could even switch Exum and Millsap on defensive assignments or stick with Ingles. Joe is the most underrated player on the team, IMO. He's actually a pretty decent defender.
 
funny those that are talking about maxing middleton but you could extend Barnes by offering similar money. then locking up barnes for the next 5 years.

I agree barnes did well in the playoffs a few years back playing the stetch 4 something like close to 20 ppg.
 
NAOS said:
are you going to spam every thread with this idea?

As for Barnes, I'm not giving up a lottery pick (and all those years of rookie-scale money) for him. Give me DBooker, 10 out of 10 times, instead.
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umm yeahhh.


Hell to the no on Barnes.

1)The dude shoots threes at a Burksian rate, despite being in a system where he should honestly be drilling threes at twice the rate. Who cares if he shoots 50% on threes if he's only making 1.1 per game?
2) Inconsistent doesn't even begin to describe Barnes, even though his role of the season has been consistent.


I would much rather keep Hayward at the three (where he's been ****ing magnificent, and been able to defend the likes of Melo and Lebron) than have him change his body, play out of position at the 2, and play ****ing Harrison Barnes at the three.

I would quite honestly rather have Tony Snell, for the 2017 GS pick (that's probably all it would take). Or Booker in this year's draft 10 times out of 10.

How are we going to address our shooting woes with a dude who makes 1.1 a game?
 
♪alt13 said:
Have you been watching? Booker can play the 3. Honestly what lineup would you run against the Cavs for instance. I'd put Booker on Lebron and Hayward on J.R. Smith. ie I'd play the lineup above.
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I was all for Paul Millsap as a 3. I don't think Booker has the skills needed. Lebron would torch Booker.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I can't spell Iquoudoal... Igouadl... Iggy so I used AI... sorry.

The difference would be one that you aren't giving up really valuable draft assets to overpay Middleton. You would also be an extra year into his deal so it'd be closer to expiring and we have to think about reupping Favs, Hayward, and Gobert.

I'm not an advocate of Middleton per se, but I get the people who are... was just saying I'd rather pursue that avenue. I think Middleton's offense is good, but I think his defensive RPM is fluky. He doesn't strike me as a lock down guy. If his defense is really as good as RPM says then he is worth every penny of the max.

I'd rather have Demarre back than Barnes if we have to give up assets to get him. He's fairly pedestrian, but gets credit because he was a highly touted prospect... He certainly has another level, but I am not sure if its a major leap or just getting slightly better.
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Yep. I edited my post to take into account the assets. You quoted my post before I finished re-posting. You are spot on. I'd much rather have Matthews or DMC than Middleton. But maybe I don't see Middleton's defense. I should start watching some Milwaukee games and key in on him.
 
Crocodile Dante said:
funny those that are talking about maxing middleton but you could extend Barnes by offering similar money. then locking up barnes for the next 5 years.

I agree barnes did well in the playoffs a few years back playing the stetch 4 something like close to 20 ppg.
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And two seasons later, the dude has yet to even scrape the surface of that play.

Darrell Arthur was a monster in the 2011 playoffs against the Spurs (probably THE X-Factor of that 1st round-- apart from obvs Z-Bo heroics). Has he ever reached that level since?

I've watched Barnes a bunch. He was on my fantasy team for 1.5 years. He's overrated, and he doesn't play nearly good enough in one of the best offensive systems in the NBA. 1.1 threes per game? The ****?
 
I think Barnes is capable of much more than his stats say he is. He's just on a team that already has a lot of great scorers.
 
Apply this reasoning to enes kanter, but take a year down to like 3 months.
Hantlers said:
Not horrible, but not good either. I wouldnt give up a lottery pick for Barnes.

Barnes has a year before he hits RFA, right? So a year rental of Barnes (with the potential to sign him long term) is worth a lottery pick? Naw.
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So, let me see if I get this right....

I can have Harrison Barnes

or

I can have Devin Booker, DeMarre Carroll, and maybe enough left over to get Corey Joseph. (And I also don't have to cut ties with Trevor Booker).

We need depth as much as we need another key player. If we had a top-10 bench right now, and the season was just beginning, we'd be in the hunt for the playoffs.
 
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