Could Kanter and Gobert have worked?

[Ron Mexico]

Shocks me that people are arguing that Kanter is better right now than Favors. At the very least you could argue that he has potential to be better or will be better next season, that would at least get a little more respect for your argument.

 

[LogGrad98]

After 3 years of bad treatment Kanter just lost motivation giving his best for the Jazz. He is just much better right know, rebounding more, scoring more and with better efficiency and he is also passing the ball... He is playing around the same amount of minutes their. OKC Version of Kanter, ist just not the same player he was here... That´s the first time dude has really luck in his life and will get paid huge this summer.

Bad treatment?

Sounds to me like a personal motivation problem. He can turn it on when he wants. When. He. Wants. He is too flighty. Right now he likes where he is and is therefore performing well. Wait until something doesn't go his way and he starts sulking and doing the same thing there he did here.

 

[CAKAR]

So as gandalfe said, Kanter's weakness is still 5-on-5 basketball after 5,000+ mins in the NBA? Is there any other kind of basketball...well, outside the And1 tournaments? But wait, he's "the best player of his generation" as stated by Max Ergul. Dude doesn't need to learn anything; he's already greater than anyone else his age.

He averaged 13, 15, 27 and 27 mins. with Utah. Care to reference how many minutes players like Anthony Bennett, Otto Porter and Alex Len got as rookies? Even Derrick Favors didn't get a ton as a rookie. Kanter was NOT an NBA player coming into the league; he was a project who had been out of basketball for a year. As I've repeatedly said, only in Year #2 can you make an argument he was underutilized.

PERHAPS Utah should have moved Jefferson that season. But when? Before the year, it was still uncertain Kanter would be a top-tier starter. Big Al was a near 20-10 player and the Jazz were trying to make the playoffs. So you undermine that by letting him go at the deadline? And at his salary, there just weren't many possible destinations. I know because I looked at every single playoff team to see if he could fit financially and roster-wise. So the Jazz did EXACTLY what they should have done. Kept all their bigs for a playoff push (they barely missed), then committed to Kanter by telling Big Al goodbye. Enes got his chance (TWICE) to be the center of the future for Utah but didn't put up.

But you're right; I shouldn't place all of the blame on Enes. Most of it is Rudy's fault. Gobert is just too damn good and too damn passionate about winning and playing dominant defense. And Snyder cares too damn much about the Jazz being accountable for defense. Kanter is going to anchor a team like Charlotte in the future. A team will overpay to grab him because some stupid GM only looks at box scores and sees a 20/10 player. I have no doubt Enes will average that - or more. But I have serious concerns a team he plays on will ever be a contender.

I did not say that he can not play 5 n 5, I talked about it beeing a weakness back then and still improving today. Per 36 numbers are no evidence. In Utah this year his per 36 was 18, 9 in OKC it´s 21, 13 playing alongside Westbrook who is somedays taking 40 shots and many games alongside Ibaka and Waiters who are also taking a lot of possesion.

This offseason Utah offered him 8 Millions per year and you still can blame him wanting out ? If he wants to play for a Championchip right now, he will take 12-14 Millions per year from OKC, if not he will take the maximal deal of another team and produce even bigger numbers.

It was a bad situation... Utah got no value and limited production from Kanter on the court and the team always played better without him. Since he plays for OKC, Utah is palying better, too. Also OKC is playing better with him, Ibaka scored much more efficient with Kanter then without. Westbrook gets a lot of assist, because it´s easy too feed Kanter. Also Adams playing better, since he came back from injury and Anthony Morrow is gettin much more wide open shots and scoring treamoundsly from the points range. And Kanter is producing better every game...
The defense got worse, but it was also bad the 2-3 games Kanter did not played because of injury...

Utah´s game as a team is much better since the Kanter trade and Kanter is producing much better since playing for OKC... Utah and Kanter was a misunderstanding from the beginning, guys like Cy or Franklin were always right. AL is propabley the best player in the NBA and Millsap was an borderline allstar. It´s not like every team has bigs, as good as Utah had back then.

 

[Diamond77]

Favors actually is a better offensive player than Kanter. Faves gets to the line more often, shoot the 3rd highest % of any player in the league in the restricted area, has shot the J more efficiently at around 40% and is much much better defensively which makes choosing Faves a no brainer. Favors also is a better passer and sports the 12 highest PER of any player in the league.

As CY said, Kanter is a better offensive rebounder and i'll concede he's a better free throw shooter.

We are not discussing who is a better overall player but who is a better scorer.

Favors is easily a better overall player than Kanter but in my opinion Kanter is a better offensive player, he has a wider offensive repertoire and he has an elite offensive footwork/post moves. Saying that he is just a very good offensive rebounder is unjustly denigrating.

If you watch all games Favors has off nights offensively once in a while, Kanter is a more reliable scorer.

Anyway I have to admit that Favors has step up since Kanter has been traded.

To reply to the thread "could Kanter and Gobert have worked?" I say definitely yes!

 

[CAKAR]

Shocks me that people are arguing that Kanter is better right now than Favors. At the very least you could argue that he has potential to be better or will be better next season, that would at least get a little more respect for your argument.

Favors is clearley a better all around player and is much better right now... But in OKC, Kanter is improving fast..

 

[Diamond77]

Favors is clearley a better all around player and is much better right now... But in OKC, Kanter is improving fast..

It is curious that Kanter that was labeled as an "empty points" player like Al Jefferson now he is carrying OKC to the playoffs with his points and playing suddenly winning basketball. Time to admit that some Jazz Kanter fans were right to support him. You don't trade an emerging young big that can guarantee easily 20 points and 10 rebounds for peanuts. You can trade him if he does not fit with team system but not trading him as a gift without the right reward.

 

[CAKAR]

I also think that Alec Burks is not a good fit for Utah... He could do better on another team the last few seasons and now he got a Kanter-Like injury... But Quin Snyder is giving some hope, that he will somehow fit in...

 

[CAKAR]

It is curious that Kanter that was labeled as an "empty points" player like Al Jefferson now he is carrying OKC to the playoffs with his points and playing suddenly winning basketball. Time to admit that some Jazz Kanter fans were right to support him. You don't trade an emerging young big that can guarantee easily 20 points and 10 rebounds for peanuts. You can trade him if he does not fit with team system but not trading him as a gift without the right reward.

Al never produced empty points... When he played for Utah, they were a legit play-off team in the West with a bad coach. When he left us, we got one of the worst teams in the NBA... Before he joined the Bobcatts, they were the worst team in NBA and after he joined them. they become a legit playoff team.

Their was talk about Kanter slowing down the team offense and killing ball movement... That´s not the case in OKC, according to Oklahoman reporters their is better ball movement then ever. They will be a scary team, once Durant and Ibaka return with their new style of play.

 

[Diamond77]

Al never produced empty points... When he played for Utah, they were a legit play-off team in the West with a bad coach. When he left us, we got one of the worst teams in the NBA... Before he joined the Bobcatts, they were the worst team in NBA and after he joined them. they become a legit playoff team.

I never hinted at Al being an empty points player, I was sarcastic. I like to watch offensive players playing they make the game more fun.

The regular season is mainly offense. Defense become fundamental in the playoffs.

 

[LogGrad98]

First of all no one is arguing that Kanter does not have potential because he does. We are arguing that Favors is better. I have not missed a single Jazz game for at least a decade. Second of all no one knows what Kanter is playing for except him. He might be fighting for a playoff spot and for his teammates but he might be fighting for more money. What we do know is that he was not putting in a good effort in Utah and was not concerned about his teammates. He was a selfish player who cared about his own stats. Maybe that suddenly changed...

I think the crux of the argument is this: if you can only have one of them, and realistically we can only have one, then which one?

I would choose Favors. I think he has much more upside, in all areas of the game not just double-doubles.

I think Gobert is a no-brainer.

 

[CAKAR]

I never hinted at Al being an empty points player, I was sarcastic. I like to watch offensive players playing they make the game more fun.

The regular season is mainly offense. Defense become fundamental in the playoffs.

AL is an absolute rarity in the NBA... Most of the great Post-Players like Shaq, Duncan, or even Hakeem turned the ball over a lot. Al maybe has the most underrated footwork ever and great court awareness. Al can score 20+ points per game, most of them in the post turning the ball over under 2 times per game... That´s the point of AL beeing an efficient scorer and somedays impossible to stop... You can not trap him, he never does a step to much, he is always perfect.

 

[Maneesh]

Kanter is putting up numbers playing off of Westbrook. Kanter is a 2nd or 3rd option and what he's doing in OKC is working.

23/12 in his last 3 games is nothing to sneeze at. I'm pretty sure OKC is happy with the fit.

He's a Kevin Love-type player.

Where I live we say you on that pocololo bruh?

 

[Diamond77]

Kanter has Russell Westbrook. That make scoring a lot easier.

Kanter is helping Westbrook to increase his triple-doubles. It's a lot easier for him to stamp assists.

 

[Eminence]

Never thought Kanter was a bad player (though a sketchy defender), just didn't love his fit here and since he obviously wanted to leave this summer and we didn't want to pay what it would take to keep him I still agree with the move for sure. I'm sure he'll be solid wherever he winds up in the future!

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

There was no bigger supporter of Kanter the last four years then me. I believe the Jazz got completely hosed in the trade and I knew that he would shine in OKC. But even the most ardent supporters have to admit the one benefit of this trade has been watching Gobert in a starting role. He has been amazing.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if Kanter ends up being an all star. It doesn't matter that he becomes a 20 point 10 rebound machine. He is gone and he isn't coming back. I've had to come to grips with that and so do all the other Kanter supporters.

I was a big Kanter supporter, too, but this is how it is. Well put.

Given the choice between he and Gobert I would take Gobert. That's what the FO did. My only regret now is that Utah didn't move Kanter sooner to get more out of his value. I think Kanter will be an offensive force in the league for a long time.


Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Kyoto]

Remember when Al Jefferson was due for a new contract how great he looked? Just saying...

 

[mellow]

I just checked in to this thread, so maybe this was already said....

Kanter wanted to go. It is important to keep that part of the story alive, because it is the reason he is gone. It wasn't just that he had a bad day and let it slip out that he wanted a trade. The jazz and Enes had a rocky start and a bumpy relationship and it wasn't improving. It wasn't a big secret either. I heard Lindsey, Locke, and Checketts all say as much with carefully chosen words.

Enes will put up good to great numbers for many years. He will probably jump around to several teams. He might be an All star. Rather than grumbling about our jazz each time, remember that Enes Kanter didn't want to be here.

 

[Harambe]

Given the choice between he and Gobert I would take Gobert, though.

This.

Kanter will be decent in the league.. maybe even make the all star team somewhere, sometime. But we're a better team without him with the pieces we have.

 

[framer]

I just checked in to this thread, so maybe this was already said....

Kanter wanted to go. It is important to keep that part of the story alive, because it is the reason he is gone. It wasn't just that he had a bad day and let it slip out that he wanted a trade. The jazz and Enes had a rocky start and a bumpy relationship and it wasn't improving. It wasn't a big secret either. I heard Lindsey, Locke, and Checketts all say as much with carefully chosen words.

Enes will put up good to great numbers for many years. He will probably jump around to several teams. He might be an All star. Rather than grumbling about our jazz each time, remember that Enes Kanter didn't want to be here.

1. Enes Kanter will be making a lot more money than Derrick Favors next year.

2. Enes Kanter isn't even close to as good as player as Derrick Favors.

3. The Jazz made the right decision. There is no way they could or should have matched a high dollar offer for Kanter.

 

[akirac73]

The Jazz once traded away a far more talented player than Kanter (NBA Scoring Champ/Hall of Famer Adrian Dantley) for garbage and things worked out fine for the Jazz. I suspect history will repeat itself here...