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I Am A Homebrewer

I was sort of being tongue in cheek.






These two posts are examples of why I think changes will require patience waiting for old prudes to die off.

old prudes don't die off, they procreate, repopulate, proliferate, and live longer. further, I expect that inside twenty years Face and Frank will become born-again teetotalers. Not sure Peeks has really made that bend yet, but he has stated his intent a few times.

The problem with wanting to change human nature, fix the world, or make progress of any kind, is that the next generation will want to fix the world you messed up. And when your grandkids start doing the stuff you did, you're gonna see Jesus.

That said, I love the idea of home brewing. I could argue from the text of the Word of Wisdom that using the stuff you make yourself is no sin, while buying from international corporates is.
 
That would have been an odd response.

Yeah, right? I was just telling the guy what the law in Utah required. If he had wanted to take it out on me it wouldn't be the first time as a waiter that happened, but it wouldn't have made any sense.
 
Yeah, right? I was just telling the guy what the law in Utah required. If he had wanted to take it out on me it wouldn't be the first time as a waiter that happened, but it wouldn't have made any sense.

yes it wouldn't make any sense, but it is a perfect natural response. some people expect people to disobey unjust and senseless laws.
and actually it is a response i would expect in the situation
 
yes it wouldn't make any sense, but it is a perfect natural response. some people expect people to disobey unjust and senseless laws.
and actually it is a response i would expect in the situation

That is a whole other topic of conversation, but I will ask anyway just for fun....who decides which laws are unjust? Can I just decide that any law I don't like is unjust and just do whatever I want. I think it is unjust that my neighbor drives a Porsche, so the law against me taking it is also unjust, so I will just go over there and take it. Right?
 
That is a whole other topic of conversation, but I will ask anyway just for fun....who decides which laws are unjust? Can I just decide that any law I don't like is unjust and just do whatever I want. I think it is unjust that my neighbor drives a Porsche, so the law against me taking it is also unjust, so I will just go over there and take it. Right?


well thats a discusion of freedom vs restricting others people freedom.
if you take the prosche, you are infringing on your neighbours freedom.

but if you have 1 or 2 or 4 or 5 beers on the table. you are not infringing on anyones freedom, as far as i see it.
hence it is considered unjust.
ofcourse you could say if you go out and drink and drive you could kill someone by vehicular homicede. but lets be honest wether the law says 1 beer at a time or 10 beer at a time it does not make a difference.

but this whole just/unjust laws thingy is a whole other discussion. your live germany, having visited it a few times speaking to Germans you learn a lot from their history.
they had lots of imorral and unjust laws in the 30's and 40's. in hindsight the whole WWII debacle could have been if the people the law enforcement officers an the military have disobeyed these unjust laws :P.


so again who decides what laws are just or unjust is a pretty deep and hard convo. but i don't have enough post left about 130.

ir comes down to not infringing on others freedom and your freedom to not be infringed on.
 
yes it wouldn't make any sense, but it is a perfect natural response. some people expect people to disobey unjust and senseless laws.
and actually it is a response i would expect in the situation

Some people expect that when people disobey unjust laws they do it in a way that makes more sense than dumping perfectly good beer on the ground and stomping out of a restaurant before their dinner has arrived.
 
I live in Utah, I like beer, but I'm not religious about it. I would like to be able to get regular beer at the grocery store but there are like 3 liquor stores within 10 min from me so its not a big deal. So I'm curious as to what laws you really want changed? I think the laws are silly but not overly oppressive.
 
I live in Utah, I like beer, but I'm not religious about it. I would like to be able to get regular beer at the grocery store but there are like 3 liquor stores within 10 min from me so its not a big deal. So I'm curious as to what laws you really want changed? I think the laws are silly but not overly oppressive.

I don't think the laws are overly oppressive, either. I think they're ineffective.

What is gained by controlling the sale of >4%abv beer to liquor stores, bars and restaurants, and prohibiting >4%abv beer from being served on tap?

I don't think we as a society gain anything from that.

But the loss isn't that I now have to drive to the liquor store and pay higher prices. Well, that is a loss, but not the one I care about.

The loss is that it puts 4%abv beer at a competitive advantage to >4%abv beer. This strongly encourages our local breweries to produce beer at 4%abv. If you go to the grocery store you'll see a variety 12pack of Uintah beers. These beers all vary in style, yet they are all exactly 4%abv. The abv has been artificially adjusted (both up and down) to meet that magical number. Trader IPA might be a fine beer, but it's not a top notch IPA. It can't be, not at 4%abv. And it's not about pumping more alcohol in. To get more alcohol you have to use more malt (I'm being somewhat general here) which also increases the malt "backbone" of the beer, which then supports the higher hops bitterness, flavor and aroma that typifies an IPA. When you're brewing an IPA to light beer specs you can't do it right. You just can't.

That puts our local breweries at a competitive disadvantage nationally.

That drives customers to beers that are actually properly balanced at 4%abv, which happens to be light lagers by and large.

That limits the real variety we as consumers have.

In regard to no beer >4%abv on tap, there are many small breweries outside Utah that only ship their beers in kegs. We can have none of those beers.

Traditional English beers are typically served from the cask or firkin. These beers are not force carbonated and the art of getting them just right in the cask is one of the special skills of English brewing. There is a flavor and carbonation that is unique to these "real ales." Luckily beer above 4% abv is not all too common with English beers, but there are a few styles that do require greater than 4%abv, and these beers couldn't be served in Utah, at all.

So I can walk into a bar and order a hop rising (9%abv) in a bottle, but we are protecting the public by not allowing me to order a 5%abv bitter on tap?

I've got to get ready for work, but I've only just touched on this one subject and haven't even gotten into restrictions on kegs, mini bottles, restaurant service, the central ordering system, and on and on.
 
I don't think the laws are overly oppressive, either. I think they're ineffective.

What is gained by controlling the sale of >4%abv beer to liquor stores, bars and restaurants, and prohibiting >4%abv beer from being served on tap?

I don't think we as a society gain anything from that.

But the loss isn't that I now have to drive to the liquor store and pay higher prices. Well, that is a loss, but not the one I care about.

The loss is that it puts 4%abv beer at a competitive advantage to >4%abv beer. This strongly encourages our local breweries to produce beer at 4%abv. If you go to the grocery store you'll see a variety 12pack of Uintah beers. These beers all vary in style, yet they are all exactly 4%abv. The abv has been artificially adjusted (both up and down) to meet that magical number. Trader IPA might be a fine beer, but it's not a top notch IPA. It can't be, not at 4%abv. And it's not about pumping more alcohol in. To get more alcohol you have to use more malt (I'm being somewhat general here) which also increases the malt "backbone" of the beer, which then supports the higher hops bitterness, flavor and aroma that typifies an IPA. When you're brewing an IPA to light beer specs you can't do it right. You just can't.

That puts our local breweries at a competitive disadvantage nationally.

That drives customers to beers that are actually properly balanced at 4%abv, which happens to be light lagers by and large.

That limits the real variety we as consumers have.

In regard to no beer >4%abv on tap, there are many small breweries outside Utah that only ship their beers in kegs. We can have none of those beers.

Traditional English beers are typically served from the cask or firkin. These beers are not force carbonated and the art of getting them just right in the cask is one of the special skills of English brewing. There is a flavor and carbonation that is unique to these "real ales." Luckily beer above 4% abv is not all too common with English beers, but there are a few styles that do require greater than 4%abv, and these beers couldn't be served in Utah, at all.

So I can walk into a bar and order a hop rising (9%abv) in a bottle, but we are protecting the public by not allowing me to order a 5%abv bitter on tap?

I've got to get ready for work, but I've only just touched on this one subject and haven't even gotten into restrictions on kegs, mini bottles, restaurant service, the central ordering system, and on and on.

See I did not know the ins and outs of all those rules. Good to have them explained. The no kegs thing I think is absurd. As far as the 4 abv marketplace, that makes sense to change also. I would LOVE to have some god damned refrigeration at the liquor store also.
 
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