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The Jazzfanz Official "Let's hold hands and pray for Trey Burke"/ KOLinds Please Draft Burke thread.

da ThRONe said:
Just watched the the early part of the season. Burke is not the chucker people say he is. His biggest flaw is his shooting touch isn't there. Plus his body positioning is terrible defending the PNR the way the team defends PNR.

I know it's easy to pick a player and make him the scape goat. However most of the things people say about him I just don't see after watching him. A chucker is someone that takes ill-advised shots all the time. Trey takes really good shots most of the time when he's the starting PG and consistently makes the right plays. He just has to be able to make jumpers far more accurately then he has his first two years. Along with finishing at the rim better(or at least get the calls from the ref when he's obviously fouled) and of course get stronger to defend the PNR better.

I know people don't want to hear it(especially from a Burke supporter), but this guy is far better than the credit he's getting on this board. He may never correct his flaws, but he's IMO isn't far away from being in the mix of a top 10 player at his position in a year or so if he indeed corrects those 3 areas. Which are very correctable.
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No, his biggest flaw is being very short without the requisite speed, quickness, and athleticism to make up for that flaw. If he can correct those, he will make medical history.

His one real strength is being able to get his own shot off. His only hope to be an adequate NBA player is to make those shots at a much higher percentage than he has so far.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
Lol, are you sure you watched Burke? Trey Burke?
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Hey, I completely agree with him. If Trey becomes a MUCH better shooter, a MUCH better finisher, and a MUCH better defender, then he would easily be a top 10 PG in the league. But I'm not holding my breath.
 
colton said:
If he's shooting that poorly that frequently, then they are not "really good shots". They are in fact "ill-advised shots".
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Not necessarily. Somebody has to shoot. And often times Trey finds himself shooting low in the shot clock. I understand he has to shoot better anybody in their right minds should agree but you can't always look at things on the surface. Trey shot a great deal of 3's(almost 40% of his total shot attempts), and while his 32% isn't great it isn't that far off the league 35% average. Also he finished at the basket at a poor percentage.

He was moved to the bench to provide a "scoring punch" and it's clear he took that role to heart. Even though his shooting touch didn't justify such role.
 
da ThRONe said:
Not necessarily. Somebody has to shoot. And often times Trey finds himself shooting low in the shot clock. I understand he has to shoot better anybody in their right minds should agree but you can't always look at things on the surface. Trey shot a great deal of 3's(almost 40% of his total shot attempts), and while his 32% isn't great it isn't that far off the league 35% average. Also he finished at the basket at a poor percentage.

He was moved to the bench to provide a "scoring punch" and it's clear he took that role to heart. Even though his shooting touch didn't justify such role.
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I see this as more of a forced choice than a willing one. Hood and Burks injuries decemated the reserve and Snyder had to do something. He had limited options and was confined to the players on his roster.

When you shoot such a horrendously bad % you are a chucker. Regardless of how or when you take your shots, even if it is to a point forced on you.

Would be interesting to see how many of his FGApg came with under 5 seconds on the shot clock.
 
colton said:
Hey, I completely agree with him. If Trey becomes a MUCH better shooter, a MUCH better finisher, and a MUCH better defender, then he would easily be a top 10 PG in the league. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Yeah, the fact that his holds true for any player at any position tells you how far he is from being a good PG in this league.

If he were better at everything, he would be good. Yikes.
 
Stoked said:
I see this as more of a forced choice than a willing one. Hood and Burks injuries decemated the reserve and Snyder had to do something. He had limited options and was confined to the players on his roster.

When you shoot such a horrendously bad % you are a chucker. Regardless of how or when you take your shots, even if it is to a point forced on you.

Would be interesting to see how many of his FGApg came with under 5 seconds on the shot clock.
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More interesting would be to see how often he got the ball with >10 seconds on the clock and shot with <5 seconds on the same play. I didn't get to watch very many games last year yet I still saw that happen with regularity.
 
colton said:
Hey, I completely agree with him. If Trey becomes a MUCH better shooter, a MUCH better finisher, and a MUCH better defender, then he would easily be a top 10 PG in the league. But I'm not holding my breath.
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These are all things players get better at through varies ways. Burke is a guy who has had success in his basketball life shooting jumpers. Fully understand the NBA is another level but expecting him to shoot better and get stronger isn't something that requires a miracle. If anything it should be expected.
 
da ThRONe said:
These are all things players get better at through varies ways. Burke is a guy who has had success in his basketball life shooting jumpers. Fully understand the NBA is another level but expecting him to shoot better and get stronger isn't something that requires a miracle. If anything it should be expected.
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What is your connection to Trey? Family member? Fan from his college days? Just curious.
 
da ThRONe said:
These are all things players get better at through varies ways. Burke is a guy who has had success in his basketball life shooting jumpers. Fully understand the NBA is another level but expecting him to shoot better and get stronger isn't something that requires a miracle. If anything it should be expected.
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It should be expected and expect it I did. However Burke failed to deliver in a staggering way.

1st year stats: 38.0% FG, 33.0% 3s, 12.8 ppg on 12.8 FGApg, 5.7 apg, 3.0 rpg, .1 bpg, .6 spg, 90% FTs on 32.3 mpg
2nd year stats: 36.8% FG, 31.8% 3s, 12.8 ppg on 13.2 FGApg, 4.3 apg, 2.7 rpg, .2 bpg, .9 spg, 75% FTs on 30.1 mpg

Every single stat went the wrong way in less time. More shots in less time with NO ppg increase. worse %s across the board and less assists and rebounds.

The only small tiny improvements have been a .1 bpg and .3 spg increase. Horrible short of compensating for increased shooting with %s of 36.8, 31.8 and 75... in fact the only improvements I can think of off the top of my head are increased effort on D (no merely bad isntead of horrendous) and that hesitation move to get by his defender but he can't finish once he does.

For me this year is make or break for Burke's entire career. If he produces...thank the Lord. If he doesn't then he is on his way out of this league and fast. I want Burke to explode and just go nuts on the league next year. I'd be thrilled and loving it. I think we see more of the same and he is gone.
 
da ThRONe said:
Not necessarily. Somebody has to shoot. And often times Trey finds himself shooting low in the shot clock.
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I hate that excuse--so do all of the other PGs in the league. That's already factored into their shooting percentages. You don't get to ADDITIONALLY factor that in for one specific player but not for the rest.

I understand he has to shoot better anybody in their right minds should agree but you can't always look at things on the surface. Trey shot a great deal of 3's(almost 40% of his total shot attempts), and while his 32% isn't great it isn't that far off the league 35% average.
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A 3 percentage point difference in 3pt% might not seem like much, but it's about a 10% difference in the number of points scored. If a team experiences a team-wide 10% drop in number of points scored, that's about a 10 point difference throughout the course of a game (if all players go down by that same amount). That's huge. Looking at it in terms of eFG% instead of just 3pt% so that his 2pt% is also factored in, Trey ranked 23 out of 25 qualified PGs, with an eFG% of 43.0%. https://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/...Efficiency/seasontype/2/position/point-guards. The #10 PG was Brandon Knight, with an eFG% of 49.3%, and #1 was Steph Curry with eFG% of 59.4%. As far as I can tell, the league-wide average for all players was an eFG% of about 49.6%. Trey's not just a slightly worse shooter than average. He's a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, shooter.

Edit: bottom line is that while "somebody has to shoot", the Jazz would have been much better off if that "somebody" had been anyone other than Trey Burke.
 
LogGrad98 said:
More interesting would be to see how often he got the ball with >10 seconds on the clock and shot with <5 seconds on the same play. I didn't get to watch very many games last year yet I still saw that happen with regularity.
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How about the plays where he dribbles the ball for 15-20 seconds before driving or throwing up a "forced" shot. That DID happen with regularity. He just doesn't pass.
 
da ThRONe said:
Just watched the the early part of the season. Burke is not the chucker people say he is. His biggest flaw is his shooting touch isn't there. Plus his body positioning is terrible defending the PNR the way the team defends PNR.

I know it's easy to pick a player and make him the scape goat. However most of the things people say about him I just don't see after watching him. A chucker is someone that takes ill-advised shots all the time. Trey takes really good shots most of the time when he's the starting PG and consistently makes the right plays. He just has to be able to make jumpers far more accurately then he has his first two years. Along with finishing at the rim better(or at least get the calls from the ref when he's obviously fouled) and of course get stronger to defend the PNR better.

I know people don't want to hear it(especially from a Burke supporter), but this guy is far better than the credit he's getting on this board. He may never correct his flaws, but he's IMO isn't far away from being in the mix of a top 10 player at his position in a year or so if he indeed corrects those 3 areas. Which are very correctable.
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This is a great post. I love that you have the guts to stand up for a guy you believe in, and I hope that your assessment is right. I have a feeling he'll be on the team next year (at least until the trade deadline) so we're going to get a better measure of his potential.
 
colton said:
I hate that excuse--so do all of the other PGs in the league. That's already factored into their shooting percentages. You don't get to ADDITIONALLY factor that in for one specific player but not for the rest.
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Wasn't there a stat that said Burke was like 2nd in the league shooting the ball under 6 secs? Again I don't know if my point qualifies as an excuse or not but if he's top 5 in that category than it's not exactly like all other PG's.



A 3 percentage point difference in 3pt% might not seem like much, but it's about a 10% difference in the number of points scored. If a team experiences a team-wide 10% drop in number of points scored, that's about a 10 point difference throughout the course of a game (if all players go down by that same amount). That's huge. Looking at it in terms of eFG% instead of just 3pt% so that his 2pt% is also factored in, Trey ranked 23 out of 25 qualified PGs, with an eFG% of 43.0%. https://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/...Efficiency/seasontype/2/position/point-guards. The #10 PG was Brandon Knight, with an eFG% of 49.3%, and #1 was Steph Curry with eFG% of 59.4%. As far as I can tell, the league-wide average for all players was an eFG% of about 49.6%. Trey's not just a slightly worse shooter than average. He's a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, shooter.
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I think you are missing the point. Sure 32% is enough to make you well below average. And I haven't looked but I'm sure other guys other than Exum probably shot better. However again at some point somebody has to shoot. I think it's lazy to just tell a person not to shoot not understanding the situation that lead to the shot. If the ball gets moved around on offense and nobody has attempted to be aggressive the whole possession and the ball makes it back to the PG late in the shot clock I'm ok with taking the 3. Ultimately Trey is taking far too many 3's at the percentage he's shooting them and that's something that needs correcting as well.



Edit: bottom line is that while "somebody has to shoot", the Jazz would have been much better off if that "somebody" had been anyone other than Trey Burke.
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I think this train of thought is some what truncated as I mentioned earlier. It's a lot easier to say this than to look at a play and says specifically what should have happened differently. The point of my post is watching a bunch of the early games with Burke starting and I don't see those plays. Maybe I'll get there, but my hypothesis is this is after the injuries took away some of the main scoring threats.
 
Howard said:
Boy this Sandy Braille guy was a real idiot. What happened to him?
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He started posting here because he did some dumb things, then chose an alternative lifestyle. He has since then "decided" to change his ways, and hasn't been back since. (supposedly)
 
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