Planned Parenthood Selling Baby Organs

[Archie Moses]

Then it shows your stupidity-- because if you're mad about killing babies, you should want it to stop above all else.

If you want it to stop, then you're going about it in the most childish way possible. Have fun and best of luck. You're really gonna get **** done with insulting!!

Dude... most of it was tongue-in-cheek. It's funny how it's thrown at me as well as others (I don't cry about it) and I do a late night, Lyrica induced post/s I don't even remember really doing and I'm the one that needs to grow up. Mind you, the shame on you comment was inspired by, What we do in the Shadows. The whole thread is full of passive aggressive rants and cheap shots. So shocking! Sigh. Lol.

I'm not trying to convert people in here nor do I think it's possible to persuade someone from their opinion on this subject. If people are butt-hurt that I call something what it is, which is possibly the most sensitive and emotional thing I can think of, then they can cry harder. I'm not mad at anyone in here though. In fact, I know I disagree with GF and BabyPeterzz on certain subjects, but guess what? I've meet them and think their both koo dudes and respect them.

So, to sum it up, stop jumping on the band-wagon of holier than though, he's said something politically incorrect so burn the witch 2015 mentality and grow a pair, boo boo.

Hehepeepeecaca

Btw, your logic of, "this shows your stupidity - mad - dead babies" comment is flawed, guy.

 

[Miggs]

Oh the sanctimoniousness.

 

[Archie Moses]

I think he was simply arguing that PP didn't do anything wrong legally.
I don't think he was arguing whether abortion = killing or not.

I think we all know that it does.
What you are really killing is the morality issue.

I got you. I haven't really touched the PP thing in this thread and posted mostly about abortion. I get why you think I'm posting on a morality, and to some extent I am, but my main point has been based on the science of the act - which is killing.

 

[moevillini]

some links with information about in vitro fertilization…


IVF creates more embryos than are needed. Of the 8-12 (or more) embryos that are created, they are often tested for genetic traits and those with undesirable traits are discarded. Then usually 4 - 6 embryos are transferred in to the woman. Hopefully, one or two will implant in the lining of the uterus and lead to pregnancy. If more than 2 implant, the doctor most likely will remove any extras to give the remaining embryos a better chance at survival. The leftover embryos are either discarded, frozen for possible later use, or donated either to an infertile couple or for medical research.

https://www.lifenews.com/2011/09/06/pro-life-concerns-about-ivf-include-abortion-exploitation/

If more than one (or two) successfully implant, a physician will selectively abort (kill) the remaining embryos (Nadya “Octomom” Suleman refused this “embryonic discarding”, resulting in her delivering octuplets).

https://www.cirm.ca.gov/patients/myths-and-misconceptions-about-stem-cell-research

Where do the embryos come from to create stem cell lines?

All the human embryonic stem cell lines currently in use come from four to five day-old embryos left over from in vitro fertilization (IVF) procedures. In IVF, researchers mix a man's sperm and a woman's eggs together in a lab dish. Some of those eggs will become fertilized. At about five days the egg has divided to become a hollow ball of roughly 100 cells called a blastocyst which is smaller than the size of the dot over an “i”. It is these very early embryos that are implanted into the woman in the hopes that she becomes pregnant.

Each cycle of IVF can produce many blastocysts, some of which are implanted into the woman. The rest are stored in the IVF clinic freezer. After a successful implantation, they must decide what to do with any remaining embryos. There are a few options:

- Continue to paying to store the embryos
- Defrost the embryos, which destroys them.
- Donate the embryos for adoption(this option is rarely taken).
- Choose to donate the frozen embryos for research. These donated embryos are the source of human embryonic stem cell lines.

Some embryonic stem cell lines also come from embryos that a couple has chosen not to implant because they carry harmful genetic mutations like the ones that cause cystic fibrosis or Tay Sachs disease. These are discovered through routine genetic testing prior to implantation. Still other embryos might be malformed in some way that causes them to be rejected for implantation into the mother. Embryos with genetic defects of malformations would have been discarded if the couple had not chosen to donate them to stem cell research.

https://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/01/extra.ivf.embryos/index.html

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Many once-infertile couples can't decide what to do with extra IVF embryos
While not viewed as "children," some couples feel embryos are more than cells
Options include donating embryos to medical research or other couples
Other choices: letting embryos thaw or paying storage fees ad infinitum

Stephanie Smith of Odessa, Missouri, would have liked more children through in vitro, but complications from the birth of her twin girls two years ago left her unable to get pregnant again. She had five embryos left and spent more than a year reconciling her choices with her religious convictions. Those five clusters of cells forced her to think, almost daily, about how she defined life. She considers herself pro-life, so donating to another infertile couple felt natural. The more she and her husband thought about it, however, the more unsettled they became. The questions she had were too big to be left unanswered. She didn't know if she'd ever stop searching crowds for little girls who looked just like hers. "It's a life-altering decision," she says.

They eventually decided to donate the embryos for medical research, as a gesture of gratitude to a system that had given them their dreams. "We were ultimately still giving life, just not for those particular five embryos," she says.

Many couples find donating to research a middle ground that gives the embryos a status somewhere between born children and simple clumps of cells. Although the embryos will not survive, giving to science can be a very caring act, says Lyerly, who has studied the issues surrounding frozen embryos. Couples who donate to research, she says, "feel like they were helped by science and they want to give back."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672894/
this article presents a lot of interesting ethical dilemmas brought about by IVF

...however, not all embryos are wanted. We argue that it is, with the consent of the parents, morally permissible to conduct destructive research on embryos that are not wanted—perhaps because the reproductive wish of the parents has been fulfilled or abandoned. Moreover, we also argue that it is morally permissible to produce embryos specifically for research. Our arguments are intended to apply only to embryos—not fetuses or fetal tissue—and we assume that an embryo becomes a fetus eight weeks after fertilization.

 

[DutchJazzer]

For employees of Hobby Lobby or students at Wheaton College, for instance.

those people dont get obummmercare?
i thought everyone got obummercare

 

[moevillini]

those people dont get obummmercare?
i thought everyone got obummercare

Many people get their insurance coverage through their employer. Some employers, on religious grounds, are allowed to offer insurance plans that provide limited contraceptive services. Employees of those companies (Hobby Lobby is just one example) who want contraception that their company's insurance plan does not allow are able to get low-cost services at Planned Parenthood. So yes, even with the Affordable Care Act, there is still a need for Planned Parenthood.

 

[RandyForRubio]

If you actually gave a damn about getting people to change their minds about abortions then maybe you should start posting in a mature, non-childlike manner in the thread. Your polarization of this debate is insanely annoying to people like me who also find abortion wrong, but get swooped in with asshats like you who use emotion, not persuasion.

Perhaps part of the problem is that we aren't emotional about people killing babies. I respect that you're personally against the act, I cannot respect that you make no action towards that thought, and that through your vote (or lack of vote) you still support it.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer said it best IMO, "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”

 

[Archie Moses]

Perhaps part of the problem is that we aren't emotional about people killing babies. I respect that you're personally against the act, I cannot respect that you make no action towards that thought, and that through your vote (or lack of vote) you still support it.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer said it best IMO, "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”

That's because he's trying to conform with 2015 and be politically correct. One foot in the door while one foot is out of the door on the issue.

 

[DutchJazzer]

President Barack Obama told a group of young African leaders on Monday that killing others to harvest body parts was a “foolish tradition.”

At the Young African Leaders Initiative summit in Washington D.C., President Obama was asked about the killing of Albinos in Africa and the harvesting of their body parts for ritual purposes.

“Persons with Albinism in Africa are being killed and their body parts harvested for ritual purposes,” a woman in the audience said. “My request to you is to raise this issue with heads of state of African countries to bring these atrocities to an end.”

Obama condemned the practice as “foolish traditions.”

“When I was in Africa, I said, there are important traditions and folkways that need to be respected that’s part of who each culture is -- each country is -- but there’s also foolish traditions and old ways of doing business,” Obama said.

The president focused on the issue as one of discrimination.

“The notion that any African would discriminate against somebody because of the color of their skin, after what black people around the world have gone through - is crazy.”

“It is infuriating and I have no patience for it,” Obama continued.

As Sky News reported in February, some African witch doctors use Albino body parts in witchcraft rituals. In Tanazania, a one-year-old Albino boy was kidnapped and his arms and legs were hacked off; police suspect those body parts were used in witchcraft. At least 70 Albino people were killed in Tanzania in the last 10 years, reported the article, and the United Nations has condemned the paganistic practice, which reportedly is on the rise.

**** U OBUMMER

arrogant POS.

start defunding planned parenthood for their foolish tradition
hypocritical arrogant tyrant

 

[Miggs]

**** U OBUMMER

arrogant POS.

start defunding planned parenthood for their foolish tradition
hypocritical arrogant tyrant

Yeah!

 

[framer]

Many people get their insurance coverage through their employer. Some employers, on religious grounds, are allowed to offer insurance plans that provide limited contraceptive services. Employees of those companies (Hobby Lobby is just one example) who want contraception that their company's insurance plan does not allow are able to get low-cost services at Planned Parenthood. So yes, even with the Affordable Care Act, there is still a need for Planned Parenthood.

So because someone might work for a Catholic charity we need the government to continue to fund Planned Parenthood? I'm sorry. but that is the most idiotic argument in favor of Planned Parenthood that I have EVER heard. Are you Debbie Wasserman-Schultz?

 

[fishonjazz]

Perhaps part of the problem is that we aren't emotional about people killing babies. I respect that you're personally against the act, I cannot respect that you make no action towards that thought, and that through your vote (or lack of vote) you still support it.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer said it best IMO, "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”

**** dietrich bonhoeffer

 

[Stoked]

That's because he's trying to conform with 2015 and be politically correct. One foot in the door while one foot is out of the door on the issue.

It shows that he is willing to have his own morals and beliefs while making room for others to have theirs. He does not support passing his morals and views as laws.

To be honest I wish far more people where that way.

 

[DutchJazzer]

It shows that he is willing to have his own morals and beliefs while making room for others to have theirs. He does not support passing his morals and views as laws.

To be honest I wish far more people where that way.

but there comes a time someimtes when you have to force your morals on people.

example


"if your against slavery DON'T own a slave"

if you are against abortion then dont have an abortion.

 

[Archie Moses]

It shows that he is willing to have his own morals and beliefs while making room for others to have theirs. He does not support passing his morals and views as laws.

To be honest I wish far more people where that way.

I get why and understand why people get abortions. I really get it, I do.

But just because you get it and know other people feel differently about something, doesn't mean you have to condone it, remain silent, or emotionless. Especially when the subject is about killing human life - There's nothing more serious than that. My morals on this subject are not dogmatic. They're what I hope in humanity, because to me and science, abortions means killing human life.

It's bizarre to me, to think that some people are more upset by how someone presents themself in a sports forum yet, they have no problem with certain posters getting made fun of, called clueless, brainless, and told to get off their high horses, etc because "to them" abortion is killing humans - regardless of their moral agenda.

Stoke, I agree that I wish people were more like Dalamon. He's a good, educated, well presented dude. That said, if there were an anomaly of a situation when one might fray from what you said you wish, I dare you to find one more reasonable than this topic.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

I get why and understand why people get abortions. I really get it, I do.

But just because you get it and know other people feel differently about something, doesn't mean you have to condone it, remain silent, or emotionless. Especially when the subject is about killing human life - There's nothing more serious than that. My morals on this subject are not dogmatic. They're what I hope in humanity, because to me and science, abortions means killing human life.

It's bizarre to me, to think that some people are more upset by how someone presents themself in a sports forum yet, they have no problem with certain posters getting made fun of, called clueless, brainless, and told to get off their high horses, etc because "to them" abortion is killing humans - regardless of their moral agenda.

Stoke, I agree that I wish people were more like Dalamon. He's a good, educated, well presented dude. That said, if there were an anomaly of a situation when one might fray from what you said you wish, I dare you to find one more reasonable than this topic.

I can speak for myself, the way you've approached the subject and the manner in which you've communicated so far has been very self-righteous and arrogant. Notice many posters here agree with you and hold the same beliefs without acting like you have so far.

It's apparent that you find it easier to break down this issue into simple terms, that's how it works in your head and that's fine. It's not so simple for others, especially for women. The one active woman on this forum has been belittled for her opinions too, when she has the most intimate relationship with this subject.

Anyways, stop being a dick. I hope people call me out, and they have, when I'm being one. Or **** me, whatever.

 

[♪alt13]

So because someone might work for a Catholic charity we need the government to continue to fund Planned Parenthood? I'm sorry. but that is the most idiotic argument in favor of Planned Parenthood that I have EVER heard. Are you Debbie Wasserman-Schultz?

Dude I was a street rat when I was a teenager/young adult. Trust me you don't want homeless kids havin babies. PP hands out condoms, does STD tests, examines men and womens naughty parts, provides guidance for over the counter medications, provide vaccines, and much more. The whole demonize PP thing is retarded.

 

[fishonjazz]

Dude I was a street rat when I was a teenager/young adult. Trust me you don't want homeless kids havin babies. PP hands out condoms, does STD tests, examines men and womens naughty parts, provides guidance for over the counter medications, provide vaccines, and much more. The whole demonize PP thing is retarded.

This

 

[DutchJazzer]

Dude I was a street rat when I was a teenager/young adult. Trust me you don't want homeless kids havin babies. PP hands out condoms, does STD tests, examines men and womens naughty parts, provides guidance for over the counter medications, provide vaccines, and much more. The whole demonize PP thing is retarded.

AGAIN, shouldnt obummer care take care of all that?
**** obummercare. and there are other local centers that do the same.
either make abortion illegal except done by state in highly regulated matter.
and let planned parenthood do teall planned parenthood and not commit racist genocide

 

[moevillini]

Again, I ask of those whose views are the most fervently anti-abortion (primarily Dutch and Archie) and really, anyone and everyone:

Given the fact that in vitro fertilization typically results in the destruction of multiple embryos, often times even aborting some which have already implanted in the womb, do you support a couple's right to choose the procedure as a means to try to achieve a pregnancy?

Just a simple yes or no is enough. Somehow I don't think either Dutch or Archie are going to answer that question.
But maybe they'll surprise me.



And Dutch, since you're being such an obnoxious jerk about this, here's an FYI:

Planned Parenthood operates clinics. It employs doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers. People PAY for its services, often on a sliding scale and often at rates less than other healthcare providers. It DOES accept insurance. So whether you have insurance through your employer, pay for private health insurance, purchase your insurance through the Affordable Care Act or are on medicaid, it doesn't matter.

Also, 42% of Planned Parenthood's services are diagnosing and treating sexually transmitted diseases. This is something that is important to protect fertility in both men and women. Another 9-10% is for cancer screening. Less than 3% of its budget goes for abortion services.

here are a couple links for anyone interested in learning more about Planned Parenthood:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/04/how-planned-parenthood-actually-uses-its-federal-funding/
https://plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-central-western-new-york/patient-resources/paying-your-health-care/


And maybe next we can get into a discussion about when life ENDS. There's plenty to disagree about on that subject as well.