BYU - it's time come out of the dark ages.

[colton]

This isn't a BYU vs Utah thing. This is about a culture of fear that has lead to over 90% of rapes not being reported. That means that 9 out of 10 guys who sexually assault women go free in Utah County.

As I pointed out, this is the statistic NATIONWIDE, including at the U of U. There's no evidence that I could find that BYU or Utah County is better or worse than the national statistic.

So yes, the reason why you are posting these things here is because of your pathological irrational hatred of BYU.

Go ahead, prove me wrong. Stop focusing your hatred on BYU. Take up a discussion of what's wrong at the U of U, why 90% of rapes go unreported there, and how that can be fixed. Be just as outraged about the U.

We can be better than that.

Absolutely.

 

[JazzGal]

The issue is raised here against BYU because of the additional problem of the Honor Code affecting reporting. Whether you like or dislike BYU, it is still a story and worth discussing.

The "unreported" rape numbers come from anonymous surveys and from rape crisis centers and other such places. Even if women seek treatment, they still seldom report to the police.

I have been appalled to discover that, when having serious discussions with a group of women, that so many have been sexually assaulted. I found out in the past few years that one of my closest friends for the past 35 years had been raped early in our friendship, and she never told me or really anyone but her Bishop. She was disfellowshipped because she had been alone in his apartment making out. She believed for many, many years that she was to blame.

Rape is awful and women have been treated horribly for years. Anything that makes the experience worse is reprehensible.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[colton]

Look green I agree that the honor code sucks. I agree that there are some women that are not reporting rapes because they fear of being punished for honor code violations and that is wrong. But when you say things like byu has a culture of fear and byu let's rapists go free then you are making it sound like if I were to go to byu's campus tomorrow afternoon there would be scared women everywhere and rapists around every corner.

I wonder if you realize that there are tons of men that attend byu that don't even rape women. There are lots of women that attend byu that are not getting raped each day.

If you stumbled upon this article and it was about the university of Oregon you would have thought to yourself that what oregon was doing is wrong and you hope that they change their ways and then you would have moved on without making a thread about it.

I think this article gives you a great platform to bash byu and you are going to take every opportunity to do so. You will always flaunt any and every bad bit of press you can find about byu. That won't ever change.

This is absolutely correct.

green, how many times have you even visited BYU? How many days have you spent on its campus? How well do you know the university? From reading what you have written about BYU over the years, it's clear to me that you know practically nothing.

For what it's worth, I have spent nearly 13 years studying & working at BYU. That's very likely over 3000 days or 24,000 hours that I've spent on the BYU campus. I think I know BYU just a little better than you do. And there's nothing like the "culture of fear" that you describe. It's an incredibly safe campus. Is it perfect? No. But I've also spent 10 years as a student and faculty member at two other universities, and from first hand experience I can tell you that BYU's a great deal safer than either of them. And as I mentioned earlier, I'm currently even sending my own teen-aged daughter to BYU. But will you even consider that I know what I'm talking about? I doubt it.

 

[colton]

The issue is raised here against BYU because of the additional problem of the Honor Code affecting reporting. Whether you like or dislike BYU, it is still a story and worth discussing.

The "unreported" rape numbers come from anonymous surveys and from rape crisis centers and other such places. Even if women seek treatment, they still seldom report to the police.

I have been appalled to discover that, when having serious discussions with a group of women, that so many have been sexually assaulted. I found out in the past few years that one of my closest friends for the past 35 years had been raped early in our friendship, and she never told me or really anyone but her Bishop. She was disfellowshipped because she had been alone in his apartment making out. She believed for many, many years that she was to blame.

Rape is awful and women have been treated horribly for years. Anything that makes the experience worse is reprehensible.

Agree completely with everything here.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Some of the posts in this thread are appalling. Forget your allegiance in the Utah- BYU rivalry, if there is any truth to these reports, it's sickening, and to try and reason your way around it, or simply throw up your hands and say "Just another case of the haters coming after BYU" is straight up deplorable.

Many BYU fans love BYU because of what they represent. That door swings both ways. If the HC has become a way to punish female students that are sexually assaulted, or even unintentionally serves as a reason to stop young women from reporting those crimes, that should be enough for any decent person to declare that enough is enough and demand changes be made that help protect victims of sexual assault.

I'm embarrassed (yet not surprised) by some of the posters in this thread. Step out of the world of the rivalry and into the world of common sense, decency, and humanity.

 

[fishonjazz]

The issue is raised here against BYU because of the additional problem of the Honor Code affecting reporting. Whether you like or dislike BYU, it is still a story and worth discussing.

I agree and don't have a problem with this issue being discussed. I think it's wrong for byu to use the honor code against the victim.

I think some of us just have an issue with green trying to paint byu as a bad place that you shouldn't let your daughters attend due to the culture of fear at byu and the fact that byu allows rapists to go free.

I wish that my daughter would someday attend byu and graduate with a degree from byu. It's a very good school to attend as get a degree from. Lots of smart and successful people have gone to and currently go to byu.

 

[♪alt13]

This.

Let's say that greens culture of fear title at byu is true. I still believe that less women are getting raped at byu in the first place than almost all other schools.

It's hard to know the truth of that statement. If women are subject to the honor code based on evidence given reporting a rape then they have an incentive not to report. So, the sexual assault statistics are likely lower than they should be. By how much, we don't know.

We do know that rape victims have less security at BYU than at other schools. BYU should fix this and then perhaps they will prove your statement to be correct.

 

[fishonjazz]

Some of the posts in this thread are appalling. Forget your allegiance in the Utah- BYU rivalry, if there is any truth to these reports, it's sickening, and to try and reason your way around it, or simply throw up your hands and say "Just another case of the haters coming after BYU" is straight up deplorable.

Many BYU fans love BYU because of what they represent. That door swings both ways. If the HC has become a way to punish female students that are sexually assaulted, or even unintentionally serves as a reason to stop young women from reporting those crimes, that should be enough for any decent person to declare that enough is enough and demand changes be made that help protect victims of sexual assault.

I'm embarrassed (yet not surprised) by some of the posters in this thread. Step out of the world of the rivalry and into the world of common sense, decency, and humanity.

I think some of us just have an issue with green trying to paint byu as a bad place that you shouldn't let your daughters attend due to the culture of fear at byu and the fact that byu allows rapists to go free.

.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's hard to know the truth of that statement. If women are subject to the honor code based on evidence given reporting a rape then they have an incentive not to report. So, the sexual assault statistics are likely lower than they should be. By how much, we don't know.

We do know that rape victims have less security at BYU than at other schools. BYU should fix this and then perhaps they will prove your statement to be correct.

From what Colton and green posted women at byu and utah do not report rapes 9 out of 10 times. So even the rape numbers at the u of u wouldn't be accurate because the women that attend the u are also living at a school with a culture of fear apparently since they are also afraid to report when they are raped.


But I would be curious to know the average number of reported rapes at other schools vs at byu and see if they are more than 10 times higher at other schools or not. If they are then that would mean that less rapes are occurring at byu if greens assumptions that 9 of 10 women don't report strictly due to fear of honor code punishments.

 

[colton]

I still believe that less women are getting raped at byu in the first place than almost all other schools.

It's hard to know the truth of that statement. If women are subject to the honor code based on evidence given reporting a rape then they have an incentive not to report. So, the sexual assault statistics are likely lower than they should be. By how much, we don't know.

Correct. But as I pointed out in an earlier post, there's no evidence that it's lowered by much. This would only be a factor in rapes that occur in situations where the victim was engaging in activities which are against the Honor Code. Such as drugs, which was the situation for the girl mentioned in the article who was expelled. That's going to be a very low fraction of rapes, in my opinion. So yes--lower than they should be, by how much we don't know, but probably not by very much.

So I think fishonjazz's statement is completely correct. Even if BYU's rape statistics are slightly elevated because of this, the number of reported rapes are so low at BYU compared to most other universities that like fish, I still believe that fewer--FAR FEWER--women are getting raped at BYU than almost all other schools.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Sadly rape culture is rampant in our society and even worse on college campuses. Having lived most of my life in Provo and near BYU I have come to see and realize this school, despite its claims, is no different. Is it worse than other schools like Utah? No, I dont think so its the same. All schools need to step up and do something. The one difference is that BYU projects itself and claims to be a better place morally but is not doing that and is not doing things to make it better. The honor code does things to prevent rape from being reported. It should be changed to allow a very serious problem to be fixed, but I do agree that every school including the other schools in Utah also need to change policies to make their campuses safer for women.

Sexual abuse in Provo is swept under the rug and ignored all to often. Provo is a great place to live for many reasons and I enjoyed living there, even as a non-mormon. But this is one issue that needs to be talked about more there and something needs to be done about it. There is far too many people who are naive to the signs and want to pretend like it doesnt happen there, when in reality it happens a lot. Provo has low crime but this area is an exception to that low crime.

Just because BYU isnt worse than other campuses doesnt mean they have good policies in place and doesnt mean they shouldnt do something about it. It also doesnt mean that poor policies shouldnt be called out and brought to light. We should talk about it, we should fix it. We should talk about the poor policies in place at other schools and bring light to anything that is happening to make this rape culture continue.

Women should not fear reporting sexual assault.

 

[colton]

Some of the posts in this thread are appalling. Forget your allegiance in the Utah- BYU rivalry, if there is any truth to these reports, it's sickening, and to try and reason your way around it, or simply throw up your hands and say "Just another case of the haters coming after BYU" is straight up deplorable... I'm embarrassed (yet not surprised) by some of the posters in this thread. Step out of the world of the rivalry and into the world of common sense, decency, and humanity.

Where are you getting this? All of the BYU supporters in this thread have said that IF the reports are accurate, then BYU has mismanaged things and need to change their policies.