BYU - it's time come out of the dark ages.

[colton]

It turned that way due to the comments green made that byu has a culture of fear (I'm finding out that all universities have a culture of fear apparently), that byu let's rapists run free (as if byu is finding rapists and high fiving them and then turning the other cheek and letting them go) and that he wouldnt let his daughter attend byu because it's too scary.

Everyone has discussed the issue of the honor code punishing victims of rape and often making them not want to report it cause they don't want to be punished for their honor code violations. Everyone single one of us has said that is wrong and needs to change iirc.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[Ron Mexico]

All women live in a "culture of fear" as far as sexual assault is concerned. It doesn't matter where we are. Every one of us has had to think about and handle things that men do not. Although it is not a conscious fear every moment of our lives, we daily make decisions subconsciously because of it (where to park, where to walk, what to wear, where to look when unknown men are around, etc). I'm sure it isn't any different at BYU than anywhere else. Women still have to stay aware of their surroundings.

This is one of the saddest truthful things about our society. I wish we/I could change that. I try very hard to think of situations from a women's perspective when talking to them or even walking down the street, but I cant truly understand what its like or how women feel.

On another note I think that sadly BYU luls parents and students to sleep in regards to sexual assault. I just talked to my brother who has 2 daughters at BYU about this lightly and he felt like his daughters were safe and not concerned. I think he daughters probably feel the same. In some regards this is nice that they are not as fearful but I feel like its being naive in some regards.

 

[Ron Mexico]

So it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that the honor code should not be scaring women from reporting rapes and that the honor code and byu should not look to punish a victim of rape.

Im curious if @jazzman12, @Broncster, @alt13 (hey hey) etc agree with green about never letting a daughter attend byu.
If you were raising a daughter and she wanted to go to byu because they had a great program in the specific category that she wanted to study and she worked her butt off and got a scholarship offer to byu and wanted to attend would you guys try to stop her because you were afraid for her safety at byu?

I wouldnt send my daughters (if I had one) to BYU and I would discourage them from going to BYU but not necessarily for this issue. I am morally opposed to many of BYU's/Mormon beliefs and would not want them to have to be pressured by it or deal with the moral high ground people looking down at them. I would not want them to feel the puritanical pressure that is involved with religion in general that I think is a huge cause for some of the rape culture that exhists. However if my daughter chose BYU I would be no more/less afraid for their safety in regards to assault than any other campus.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

So it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that the honor code should not be scaring women from reporting rapes and that the honor code and byu should not look to punish a victim of rape.

Im curious if [MENTION=422]jazzman12[/MENTION], [MENTION=181]Broncster[/MENTION], @alt13 (hey hey) etc agree with green about never letting a daughter attend byu.
If you were raising a daughter and she wanted to go to byu because they had a great program in the specific category that she wanted to study and she worked her butt off and got a scholarship offer to byu and wanted to attend would you guys try to stop her because you were afraid for her safety at byu?

I happen to have an 18 year old daughter who is currently considering scholorship offers in Drama from a few different in-state schools and a couple of out of state schools (yes, that is me bragging). To directly answer your question: No, I would not be more afraid of my daughter being assaulted at BYU anymore the other schools she is considering, but that's not the real issue, is it? Some of you are trying to bury the lead and shame on you for doing so. The real issue that is being pushed to the forefront is: If my daughter were to attend BYU and she was sexually assaulted, are they going to treat her like the victim, or the violator?

It doesn't take a ton of common sense to see that if indeed sexual assault victims are being punished after reporting these crimes, it's going to create a culture of fear amongst BYU female students to come forward, and in turn, it will only embolden the perpatrators of these awful crimes to continue to do so.

If you're a guy who's perfectly fine sending your daughter to BYU, I guess that's where we differ as fathers. Rape can happen on any campus but I'm going to try and steer my daughter clear of attending an institution that fosters an environment making sexual assault victims apprehensive about reporting the crime out of fear that they themselves will be treated like the criminal.

 

[fishonjazz]

1 in 4 college women have survived rape or attempted rape.
9.8% of victims in Utah report to law enforcement.
Nation-wide, one-third of college men reported they would rape a woman if they knew they would not get caught.

Shocking statistics

 

[fishonjazz]

From this article https://universe.byu.edu/2014/11/12/violent-crime-is-low-in-utah-overall-but-rape-rates-are-high/ : Utah has a struggle with rape in general. Violent crime in Utah is quite low, but rape is quite high.

The article is mostly about violent crime in the state of utah in general.

 

[fishonjazz]

Utah

• 1 in 3 women will experience some form of sexual violence during their lives.

• Approximately 1 in 8 women will be raped sometime during their lifetimes.

• 78.7% of victims were first assaulted before their 18th birthday.

• Only 9.8% of rapes were reported to law enforcement.

• Rape is the only category of violent crime whose rate exceeds the national average.

Source: “Rape in Utah: A Survey of Utah Women About Their Experiences with Sexual Violence.” Utah Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice, 2007.



Colleges and Universities

• Among college students nationwide, between 20% and 25% of women reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape.

• Of surveyed college women, about 90% of rape and sexual assault victims knew their attacker (boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, classmate, friend, acquaintance or co-worker) prior to the assault.

• In another survey of college women, 13.3% indicated that they have been forced to have sex in a dating situation.

• 75% of the time acquaintance rape on college campuses involves a male perpetrator under the influence of alcohol/drugs; over 50% of women victims reported being intoxicated or “mildly buzzed."

• Women who use drugs, attend a university with high drinking rates, belong in a sorority, and drank heavily in high school are at greater risk for rape while intoxicated.


United States

• Approximately 302,100 women and 92,700 men are forcibly raped each year in the United States.

• Over 32,000 pregnancies result from rape every year in the United States.

• Rape and sexual assault is the least often reported violent crime.

• The closer the relationship between the victim and the offender, the greater the likelihood that the victim would not report the crime to the police.

• Among children confirmed by child protective service agencies as being maltreated, 9.5% were sexually abused.

• More than half of all rapes of women (54%) occur before age 18; 22% of these rapes occur before age 12. For men, 75% of all rapes occur before age 18, and 48% occur before age 12.

• American Indian and Alaskan Native women are significantly more likely (34%) to be raped than African American women (19%) or White women (18%).

• Chances of developing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after being raped are between 50 and 95%.

• After a rape, victims are 10 times more likely to abuse drugs, and 14 times more likely to have significant alcohol dependencies.

Crazy statistics. Amazing how much rape is taking place. If 1 in 8 women will be raped in their lifetime then does that mean that 1 in 8 men are rapists?

 

[ConradA24]

Crazy statistics. Amazing how much rape is taking place. If 1 in 8 women will be raped in their lifetime then does that mean that 1 in 8 men are rapists?

Not necessarily, didn't someone (you?) post that most rapists are repeat offenders? Or was that just one situation? Those are some sobering statistics though.

 

[fishonjazz]

Not necessarily, didn't someone (you?) post that most rapists are repeat offenders? Or was that just one situation? Those are some sobering statistics though.

Wasn't me but that would make more sense. Hell, I would have to start being suspicious of anyone and everyone if 1 in 8 men are rapists. That's just crazy. Hopefully it's a lot less than 1 in 8 men that are rapists and what you said about most rapists being repeat offenders is true.

 

[JazzGal]

Interesting and sobering statistics. For all of you who have sons, please do your best to raise them with the idea that women are people too.

 

[♪alt13]

So it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that the honor code should not be scaring women from reporting rapes and that the honor code and byu should not look to punish a victim of rape.

Im curious if [MENTION=422]jazzman12[/MENTION], [MENTION=181]Broncster[/MENTION], @alt13 (hey hey) etc agree with green about never letting a daughter attend byu.
If you were raising a daughter and she wanted to go to byu because they had a great program in the specific category that she wanted to study and she worked her butt off and got a scholarship offer to byu and wanted to attend would you guys try to stop her because you were afraid for her safety at byu?

I'm a father not a dictator.

That being said, I doubt it's something that would ever come up. I would be surprised if my daughter chose to go to BYU over another school.

 

[JazzGal]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/3773615-155/prosecutor-says-rape-case-is-threatened

I hope this is not a standard practice. If it is, their policies really need to be re-evaluated. An Honor Code hearing should never have priority over a criminal case. EDIT: It says further in the article that the prosecutor is not aware of other cases like this.

Prosecutors say Brigham Young University is jeopardizing a pending rape prosecution because the school refuses to delay its Honor Code case against the alleged victim.

Deputy Utah County Attorney Craig Johnson brought charges against the woman's alleged attacker and said he implored school officials to consider that their Honor Code investigation of her conduct would further victimize her. He asked them to postpone their investigation until the conclusion of the trial, originally planned for next month.

He said they declined, and have barred the student from registering for future classes until she complies with the school's investigation.

That could make it difficult for her to stay in Utah and participate in the rape case, Johnson said.

"When we have a victim that is going to be revictimized any time she talks about the rape — it's unfortunate that BYU is holding her schooling hostage until she comes to meet with them," Johnson said. "And we, as prosecutors, prefer she doesn't meet with them."

The Honor Code probe began after a Utah County sheriff's deputy, a friend of the accused attacker, gave BYU a copy of the police case file. Johnson said he has stressed to school officials that the file is "paperwork that lawfully they shouldn't have."

Prosecutors charged the rape defendant and the deputy with retaliating against a witness, but the cases have since been dismissed.

The 19-year-old woman reported to Provo police that she was raped in her off-campus apartment by a man last September. About two months later, court records said, she was contacted by staff at the BYU Honor Code and Title IX offices, who told her they were given a copy of the police case file. Campus Title IX offices are charged with enforcing a federal law that guarantees students don't face hostility on campus based on their sex.

Information in the file — which included at least 20 pages of detailed statements and a report on her sexual assault medical exam — implicated the woman in violations of BYU's Honor Code, according to court records. The code is a catalog of rules, such as a dress code, a ban on alcohol and other prohibitions for students at the private school, owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The woman was asked to participate in the school's evaluation of her actions. Johnson and the student's attorney, Liesel LeCates, both said school lawyers rebuffed their requests to suspend their process in the interest of the criminal case.

LeCates said the school's attorneys claimed Honor Code action must be taken right away to comply with federal law. LeCates acknowledged Title IX calls for swift action, but said that to use the federal provision against a crime victim in BYU's Honor Code process "goes against the legislative intent of Title IX."

"The reason that exists is to keep perpetrators from staying on campus ... when criminal proceedings can take years," LeCates said. Instead, she said BYU is "taking that and using it against [a victim]."

The Tribune generally does not name victims of sexual assault.

University spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said Thursday that Title IX allows for universities to delay an investigation "while the police are gathering evidence in a related criminal case." But she could not comment on the woman's case or why no delay was granted after Johnson's request.

She emphasized that a Title IX investigation is separate and independent from the Honor Code process, and that a student would "never be referred to the Honor Code office for being a victim of sexual assault."

But multiple BYU students investigated by the school's Honor Code Office have disagreed, saying they were scrutinized as a result of reporting a sex crime.