BYU - it's time come out of the dark ages.

[RandyForRubio]

1/3 of men would rape somebody if they knew they wouldn't get caught?

The hell is wrong with people? Was that just Utah or nation wide? That's just awful. Why would you even want sex with somebody who doesn't want it?

 

[green]

I think it's pretty weird that this has turned into a "BYU is no worse than anywhere else" discussion rather than a "the title IX office passing on info to the Honor Code Office is bad" discussion.

This. 100% this.

 

[green]

The real issue that is being pushed to the forefront is: If my daughter were to attend BYU and she was sexually assaulted, are they going to treat her like the victim, or the violator?

It doesn't take a ton of common sense to see that if indeed sexual assault victims are being punished after reporting these crimes, it's going to create a culture of fear amongst BYU female students to come forward, and in turn, it will only embolden the perpatrators of these awful crimes to continue to do so.

If you're a guy who's perfectly fine sending your daughter to BYU, I guess that's where we differ as fathers. Rape can happen on any campus but I'm going to try and steer my daughter clear of attending an institution that fosters an environment making sexual assault victims apprehensive about reporting the crime out of fear that they themselves will be treated like the criminal.

This. But BYU and BYU fan is great at deflecting the real issue and this turns into a pathetic attack on me.

It shocking and disgusting.

 

[green]

Jazzgal posted a story above of how BYU has a habit of blaming the victim in rape cases. That is the issue. If the University of Utah does this as well then that is a problem as well.

Take off your blue goggles and try to look at the issue. Woman who are sexually assaulted at BYU are treated like it is their fault. That treatment can lead to more rapes going unreported. Which leads to victims not getting help and criminals not being punished.

Let's talk about the issue here, and it is the honor code standing in the way of sexual assault victims from getting help.

The Prodigal Son teaches us that even though the law says and eye for an eye, sometimes the circumstances warrant the we don't drag sinners (say a girl who did acid then was raped) further through the mud when their experiences were more punishment that they should have ever experienced.

The un-Christlike responses in defending an institution and that institution's response is disgusting.

 

[JimLes]

1/3 of men would rape somebody if they knew they wouldn't get caught?

https://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/01/lots-of-men-dont-think-rape-is-rape.html

 

[fishonjazz]

1/3 of men would rape somebody if they knew they wouldn't get caught?

The hell is wrong with people? Was that just Utah or nation wide? That's just awful. Why would you even want sex with somebody who doesn't want it?

Nation wide. And yes, alarming.

 

[fishonjazz]

This. But BYU and BYU fan is great at deflecting the real issue and this turns into a pathetic attack on me.

It shocking and disgusting.

Jazzgal posted a story above of how BYU has a habit of blaming the victim in rape cases. That is the issue. If the University of Utah does this as well then that is a problem as well.

Take off your blue goggles and try to look at the issue. Woman who are sexually assaulted at BYU are treated like it is their fault. That treatment can lead to more rapes going unreported. Which leads to victims not getting help and criminals not being punished.

Let's talk about the issue here, and it is the honor code standing in the way of sexual assault victims from getting help.

The Prodigal Son teaches us that even though the law says and eye for an eye, sometimes the circumstances warrant the we don't drag sinners (say a girl who did acid then was raped) further through the mud when their experiences were more punishment that they should have ever experienced.

The un-Christlike responses in defending an institution and that institution's response is disgusting.

It turned that way due to the comments green made that byu has a culture of fear (I'm finding out that all universities have a culture of fear apparently), that byu let's rapists run free (as if byu is finding rapists and high fiving them and then turning the other cheek and letting them go) and that he wouldnt let his daughter attend byu because it's too scary.

I think some of us just have an issue with green trying to paint byu as a bad place that you shouldn't let your daughters attend due to the culture of fear at byu and the fact that byu allows rapists to go free.

.

 

[fishonjazz]

But BYU and BYU fan is great at deflecting the real issue a

Take off your blue goggles

Where are my blue goggles in the following words I posted? Where is the deflection in the following words I posted.

Every byu fan that posted in this thread has said that what is happening at byu with the honor code is wrong.

So it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that the honor code should not be scaring women from reporting rapes and that the honor code and byu should not look to punish a victim of rape.

Everyone has discussed the issue of the honor code punishing victims of rape and often making them not want to report it cause they don't want to be punished for their honor code violations. Everyone single one of us has said that is wrong and needs to change iirc.

Look green I agree that the honor code sucks. I agree that there are some women that are not reporting rapes because they fear of being punished for honor code violations and that is wrong.

 

[colton]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/3773615-155/prosecutor-says-rape-case-is-threatened

I hope this is not a standard practice. If it is, their policies really need to be re-evaluated. An Honor Code hearing should never have priority over a criminal case. EDIT: It says further in the article that the prosecutor is not aware of other cases like this.

Yeah, seems pretty bizarre.

 

[colton]

Take off your blue goggles and try to look at the issue.

Take off your red goggles and try to read what the BYU fans in this thread have actually written.

 

[Qman]

I want to float a hypothetical scenario. (Note this is not what I believe is happening in the heavily discussed case.)

Let's say that female BYU student decides to violate the Honor Code by drinking at an off-campus party. Let's say some other BYU students recognize the female student and after a few days decide to report the Honor Code violation.

But it turns out later that night out mostly drunk female student is raped at the party by a man.

The next morning the female student goes to the hospital and reports the rape. All the normal police procedures follow.

So the female student is a victim of rape but she also clearly violated the Honor Code by choosing to drink alcohol.

What is correct response?


There are multiple witnesses to a Honor Code violation who have reported it independently. Under normal circumstances the female student would be required to speak the honor code office and agree to a HC probation plan. Or she would be suspended from registering for classes. Or possibly expelled.

In this case, she refuses to speak to honor code office. She has good reasons and the local prosecutor tells the Honor Code to back off.


So does the fact she was a victim of rape, mean that all other accountability must be delayed until the conclusion of the criminal prosecution of her rapist? Where is a reasonable limit?


I believe the Honor Code is not legal obligated to listen to the DA. BYU does have to obey title IX but the Honor Code office has no information about the rape.

Obviously, the rape victim would feel like the Honor Code office unfairly pressuring her.

My point is there are a bunch of really difficult situations that may arise.

 

[Safetydan]

I want to float a hypothetical scenario. (Note this is not what I believe is happening in the heavily discussed case.)

Let's say that female BYU student decides to violate the Honor Code by drinking at an off-campus party. Let's say some other BYU students recognize the female student and after a few days decide to report the Honor Code violation.

But it turns out later that night out mostly drunk female student is raped at the party by a man.

The next morning the female student goes to the hospital and reports the rape. All the normal police procedures follow.

So the female student is a victim of rape but she also clearly violated the Honor Code by choosing to drink alcohol.

What is correct response?


There are multiple witnesses to a Honor Code violation who have reported it independently. Under normal circumstances the female student would be required to speak the honor code office and agree to a HC probation plan. Or she would be suspended from registering for classes. Or possibly expelled.

In this case, she refuses to speak to honor code office. She has good reasons and the local prosecutor tells the Honor Code to back off.


So does the fact she was a victim of rape, mean that all other accountability must be delayed until the conclusion of the criminal prosecution of her rapist? Where is a reasonable limit?


I believe the Honor Code is not legal obligated to listen to the DA. BYU does have to obey title IX but the Honor Code office has no information about the rape.

Obviously, the rape victim would feel like the Honor Code office unfairly pressuring her.

My point is there are a bunch of really difficult situations that may arise.

Hypothetical? Lemme guess... you're the girl in this story.