What Happened to Katie?

[Scat]

you might wanna scroll back a couple pages

I saw. That's why I used the Matrix reference.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I saw. That's why I used the Matrix reference.

thought you meant it in a way where you knew what i was gonna respond with before I responded. Which could still be true. anyways.

 

[Boris]

Well I started to imagine if I were a transgender and I looked, acted, and felt like a woman and I went into a men's bathroom with men it. There would definitely be some dirty looks thrown my way and the men in the bathroom would probably be like "what the hell are you doing in here?" (Cause they would think I was a woman) and the men would also feel awkward having what they think to be a woman in the men's bathroom. It would be awkward for everyone and probably even scary for the transgender.

Start making tranny bathrooms problem solved everybody wins. You do not have to force penises onto women and young girls.

 

[fishonjazz]

One thing we have to keep in mind, and it is a near-universal issue when it comes to a lot of identity-based fear mongering, in deciding your societal virtues you have to make a fundamental trade off between real freedom and security. This is a push-pull process. The only way to be truly "safe" from other people is to have them, and yourself, be very heavily regulated in going about your innocent business. As you open up freedoms for everyone, you run the risk of abuses of that freedom. You can't have it both ways.

We see anxiety over this trade off all the time. Bombings in public places can happen in this country, and many Western societies, because you can't just stop everyone anytime you want and search them. We,collectively, have decided that we're willing to try and police that downside rather than eliminate it and throw out basic freedom of movement along with the bathwater of total security in all public places.

We're having a similar dispute here. The specter is instead some hypothetical possibility of creepy dudes being creepy. Sexual assault and general peeping tom-ery would still be illegal and still be punishable, but the door would be opened slightly wider for it to occur. The argument we're now having is if we want to reduce that risk by some immeasurable amount at the cost of some very awkward life situations for a known small proportion of the population. In effect, taking away their freedom to really live their life as they choose in their own body.

Unfortunately, too many people want to have these kinds of issues both ways. What they really want is to have all their own freedoms and have someone else pay the cost of the increased security and safety. That's the impulse you see when you hear calls for race-based enforcement policies or statutory restroom restrictions. It's trying to have it both ways at someone else's expense. Fundamentally, we all know that isn't right. It's just selfish and mean. And who wants to be selfish and mean?

That's a great post (probably the best of the entire discussion) and sums up the discussion that we were having. It's not black and white. There is a grey area no matter how small it is.
Are there any instances where having bigoted rules/laws are necessary for the greater good?
Idk
Is there a law/rule against polygamy? Is that law/rule bigoted? It would seem to be hateful or intolerant to an entire group of people.

Should there be a rule of not allowing penises into a girls locker room, even if the owner of the penis identifies as a female, in order to protect the rights of the girls that shower and use the locker room to not have to be around a naked penis?

After this discussion and my own reflection I believe that the amount of transgenders that would be scared, embarrassed, and feel isolated by having no place to go to the bathroom would likely be greater than the amount of pervs that would try to take advantage of the change to the law/rule and so it's my opinion that transgenders should be able to go to the bathroom in the one they, and the other users of that bathroom, feel most comfortable in.

 

[Stoked]

Start making tranny bathrooms problem solved everybody wins. You do not have to force penises onto women and young girls.

smh

 

[fishonjazz]

the dude with the PhD is speaking down to a Utah-based working class dude (who's also laughed at his workplace) about privilege-- and crucifying him for not being in the academic and/or social circles where he would encounter the perspective necessary to understand transphobia and how it manifests.


Ignore him, Fish.

I don't see this post telling me how I think like naos says it does.

 

[NAOS]

I don't see this post telling me how I think like naos says it does.

He assumes you haven't encountered the necessary perspectives. That's very clearly written.

I assumed you had, and then made a lazy conclusion. At least I gave you credit for being a free-ranging thinker. Dal thinks you live a secluded life.

 

[Jamezz]

Start making tranny bathrooms problem solved everybody wins. You do not have to force penises onto women and young girls.

Why stop there? Make bathrooms according to race and political ideology as well. I would even mandate to have separate bathrooms for the home team fans and the visiting team fans at any sports stadium.

"Sir, where's the bathroom for Filipino, communist, straight female Jazz fans?" (for instance)

 

[fishonjazz]

He assumes you haven't encountered the necessary perspectives. That's very clearly written.

I assumed you had, and then made a lazy conclusion. At least I gave you credit for being a free-ranging thinker. Dal thinks you live a secluded life.

I had already admitted ignorance about transgenders though right?

I think that makes it a safe assumption that I have not encountered the necessary perspectives.
I don't think that means he is telling me how I think though.
To me there is a difference between someone telling me how I think or what I am (a bigot for example) and guessing at what kind of perspectives I may or may not have encountered.

 

[NAOS]

I had already admitted ignorance about transgenders though right?

I think that makes it a safe assumption that I have not encountered the necessary perspectives.
I don't think that means he is telling me how I think though.
To me there is a difference between someone telling me how I think or what I am (a bigot for example) and guessing at what kind of perspectives I may or may not have encountered.

well then, you and I are very different people. ciao.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I had already admitted ignorance about transgenders though right?

I think that makes it a safe assumption that I have not encountered the necessary perspectives.
I don't think that means he is telling me how I think though.
To me there is a difference between someone telling me how I think or what I am (a bigot for example) and guessing at what kind of perspectives I may or may not have encountered.

FIN

 

[fishonjazz]

Why stop there? Make bathrooms according to race and political ideology as well. I would even mandate to have separate bathrooms for the home team fans and the visiting team fans at any sports stadium.

"Sir, where's the bathroom for Filipino, communist, straight female Jazz fans?" (for instance)

I wish I had bathroom designated for me. That would kick ***. The less people using the bathroom that I use, the better.
I never go into a bathroom and look for a "heavily used" one.... I always want the one that looks less used
Never having to wait in line would be nice too.