PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Why do you ask so many questions, Trout?
Obama fiddles while Gas Prices rise
- Thread starter PearlWatson
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Why do you ask so many questions, Trout?
unluckyseventeen
Well-Known Member
Obama plays the fiddle? He must be the devil.
This middle east instability was the goal of the war on terror, was it not. Democracy spreading throughout the Arab world...
Did he go down to Georgia lookin' for a soul to steal?
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Wow, you are blaming Bush for these high gas prices too. LOL!
I think you're mis-understanding.
Given that one of the purported rationales behind the invasion of Iraq was to set off a "wave of democracy," I've actually been surprised the right hasn't tried to take credit for it.
One of the rieght-wingers on McLaughlin group (I forget her name) did for a week, until word got out it was not supposed to be a good thing for Egypt to go democratic.
I don't think it's true (I've yet to see any indications that any of these groups believes that Iraq is "the model"), I'm just surprised that no one has been seriously advancing the argument.
But seriously, who thought Tunisia was the key to the region?
Monica Crowley? Damn, girl is good to go...
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Agoxlea
Guest
Milsapa might not be a fan, but I'm doing an environment science paper on a hypothetical increase of gas taxes to European levels over the next decade to improve public trans in the bay area + fix our crappy roads. I pretty much agree with 95% of your posts so I had to chime in.
Kicky and I agree on something? Stop the axis rotation immediately! High gas prices in 1982 kicked ***... for 25+ years afterward.
The funny thing is when Obama took office gas was something like $1.40/gallon and we were talking about making bumper stickers of when he signed up and 3,4,5 years later when it had nearly tripled. It was inevitable then and as much as it was under Bush. Actually, Bush gave a little supply side help (to dirty US oil cartel, of course, who won what, zero bids on Iraqi oil? The oil that cost the producers in risk adjusted analyses?).
Anyway, welcome $5 gas.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
Is this gas tax just in the "bay area?" If not it sounds damn selfish of you to further deteriorate the economy so you can improve things in the "bay area."
gov-run mass transit is still inefficient. Funny how when you get to play with other people's money you spend it on pet projects and pipe dreams instead of on what will work. If licenses for "cabs" and a full spectrum of private transit solutions were just allowed, maybe we'd have transportation like Manila had when I was there. You really didn't need a car. Yes, in some isolated rural areas in the bundoks you might wait for an hour by the roadside, just like some folks wait in our cities for the next bus or metrolink. But a lot of daily commuter vans driven by workers who live in the same general neighborhood and work at the same worksite would be more efficient, and require less lanes on the freeways. . .
I say require gas tax to be pro-rated between highways and metrolinks on a per-rider figure. And don't build inefficient non-solutions.
The whole idea of punishing a particular fuel use is just archaic. It's no better than the medieval practice of selling indulgences.
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Agoxlea
Guest
Not a real tax, but I live in the bay area, so I chose to keep it here. If it were up to me I think it would be great to do nationwide, but this a fairly densely populated area, and BART is a pretty rundown public transportation system running at a defect. If it was more expensive to drive, ridership would increase making rapid transit profitable. Being realistic, it would be a waste of money to build such expensive infrastructure if there weren't enough riders to make them profitable, or at least near profitable... That's why I am in favor of a gas tax, it would encourage people to use public transit for longer commutes, and decrease congestions and pollution. This tax could also be used to improve the roads, pay back some of our debt, increase incentives to build transportation that doesn't rely on fossil fuels, and increase incentives for people to use these methods.
I agree with babe in that if we just built more public transportation, it would not be a pretty big chunk of money for something not many people would use, but people need an incentive to choose this option. Eventually we are going to have to pay to develop alternative transportation, whether that is public transit or alternative fuels. Why not charge people for those externalities related to fossil fuels instead of the prices we are paying now. When we start to run out of fossil fuels gasoline will be much more expensive than I am proposing, but we will not have a way to pay for the new technology and infrastructure required. The money has to come from somewhere, and instead of a mandatory tax, it is completely up to each individual whether the cost of gas is worth driving.
We couldn't do this overnight, a sudden increase that large without the infrastructure built would leave some low income individuals without any reasonable means of transportation. However if there was a gradual increase in the gas tax that peaked when the infrastructure was complete would be a more realistic option. To travel from airports, train stations, etc we could invest some of that tax money to have affordable hourly electric car rental locations for short trips such as from the train to work. People don't always want to take public transit, because it is inconvenient right now, but if we make these changes and have these incentives not to drive, people would be more willing to make a change. Obviously these thoughts have little research behind them yet, but if anyone is interested I can keep you updated. Maybe in a more organized fashion. I also mentioned the bay area because I think that is wear kicky is from...
The problem is that the cost of oil doesn't just affect the cost of gas. There are many other products that are made from it. Yesterday I was talking with a friend who works at a plastic injection company and he said that they have been absorbing extra costs of buying their plastic. The result was that none of their employees have received any raises for the past 3 years and with prices inching higher again they are now looking at passing the costs along to their buyers. My guess is that they will simply pass the costs along to us. So yipee for higher oil prices.
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Agoxlea
Guest
Food costs last month also rose at the highest rate since they started the food price index. Has a lot to do with the cost of oil/gas.
PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
I realize it is a hypothetical tax but I'm still not sure if the tax you proposing in your paper would be a national gas tax or just a bay area gas tax?
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Agoxlea
Guest
Just the bay area, because it easier to do research for a small area, however if it were up to me I'd like it to be nationwide. I also realize that the amount of increase I'd like would never realistically happen, a $1 increase is even a little far fetched, but I would support either one.
