Tony Jones: Favors and Jazz unlikely to reach an agreement on renegotiation and extension

[♪alt13]

He still has a year left, right? They could extend or trade him up until next February. Let's see if he bounces back, if Hayward signs, and keep the space open for this summer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Nah, you are definitely whiny. He left cap-space open hoping he could get an extension done and it didnt happen. The Jazz made trade offers involving 1st round picks (according to Locke) and it didnt work out. DL isn't a fortune teller, he can't full predict the future to know how to spend every dollar as efficiently as possible.

Not a fortune teller but if you mismanage an asset two or three years in a row... including misreading the market on the Hayward extension negotiations. It shows he has some warts. I think he's done a ton of good and I'm happy he's our GM. I'm not going to use hindsight and judge his drafting like some do, but if I think he made mistakes I won't hesitate to discuss them.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He still has a year left, right? They could extend or trade him up until next February. Let's see if he bounces back, if Hayward signs, and keep the space open for this summer.

It really made sense this year though to use our excess cap space now and discount it for future years.

 

[stitches]

Nah, you are definitely whiny. He left cap-space open hoping he could get an extension done and it didnt happen. The Jazz made trade offers involving 1st round picks (according to Locke) and it didnt work out. DL isn't a fortune teller, he can't full predict the future to know how to spend every dollar as efficiently as possible.

My complaint is that he gave up picks and $ to free up even more capspace and it seems like he did it without having much of an agreement with either Favors or Hill. He didn't even need it for renegotiating and extending Favors. The only reason to give those 2 picks and money was if he was going to R&E Hill.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My complaint is that he gave up picks and $ to free up even more capspace and it seems like he did it without having much of an agreement with either Favors or Hill. He didn't even need it for renegotiating and extending Favors. The only reason to give those 2 picks and money was if he was going to R&E Hill.

What trade are you referring to?

 

[stitches]

Hill made clear he didn't want to negotiate an extension when we traded for him. And signing Favors to an extension now kills the teams flexibility moving forward. It basically locks the Jazz into this current team after Hayward and Hill re-sign. By summer 2018 we would be way over the cap. By waiting the Jazz give themselves about a year to decide if there's a different path that is better for the team.

No, they don't really. You can always trade a contract that is massively front-loaded and is bargain in the last 2-3 years. What not using this capspace does is all but guarantees we cannot keep this team past next year even if we want to, because we won't have the cap to re-sign him without going deep into luxury tax.

 

[stitches]

What trade are you referring to?

The Pleiss trade. We dumped him so his cap number won't be on our sheets. Gave up our best second round pick this year and the worst second round pick + 3M cash to dump 3M of Pleiss' contract.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My complaint is that he gave up picks and $ to free up even more capspace and it seems like he did it without having much of an agreement with either Favors or Hill. He didn't even need it for renegotiating and extending Favors. The only reason to give those 2 picks and money was if he was going to R&E Hill.

I will say I was fine with the Tibor deal at the time. We have so many second rounders coming it will be hard to use them all efficiently.

I did think it was a pre-curser to an extension or player addition though. the other caveat here is that they may have been willing to offer Favors more thinking he'd be healthy... probably got cold feet with the issues he's had. I don't think Hill ever wanted to do an extension. I think his play, when healthy, has increased his value. Between that and just wanting to be a free agent I think the interest just wasn't there.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Pleiss trade. We dumped him so his cap number won't be on our sheets. Gave up our best second round pick this year and the worst second round pick + 3M cash to dump 3M of Pleiss' contract.

Wasnt that also so we could sign Bolomboy?

 

[stitches]

I will say I was fine with the Tibor deal at the time. We have so many second rounders coming it will be hard to use them all efficiently.

I did think it was a pre-curser to an extension or player addition though. the other caveat here is that they may have been willing to offer Favors more thinking he'd be healthy... probably got cold feet with the issues he's had. I don't think Hill ever wanted to do an extension. I think his play, when healthy, has increased his value. Between that and just wanting to be a free agent I think the interest just wasn't there.

I was fine with it too. I thought it was overpay for that dump, but I was thinking - if it ensures we keep our core going forward, so be it. But no. Now this deal is a complete waste.

 

[stitches]

Wasnt that also so we could sign Bolomboy?

That was small part of it, but I always assumed it was because of the money on the sheet, not because of our 15th roster spot. If it was because of the roster spot, they could have just waived Pleiss. Or we could have singed Bolomboy to the same contract Paige and Wallace got with the Stars. It's not like we've been using him a ton with the Jazz.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I was fine with it too. I thought it was overpay for that dump, but I was thinking - if it ensures we keep our core going forward, so be it. But no. Now this deal is a complete waste.

Complete waste is a stretch. If we didnt do that deal we would still have Pleiss and we wouldn't have Bolomboy on the 15 man roster.

And looking at the trade, we dealt the most and least favorable of our 4 2nd round picks this year. Not really a big price to pay for a chance at renegotiation Favors or Hill. Hill got off to a great start and probably convinced him to test the market and Favors was so bad this year any renegotiation probably felt like a lowball to him. DL cant tell the future.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That was small part of it, but I always assumed it was because of the money on the sheet, not because of our 15th roster spot. If it was because of the roster spot, they could have just waived Pleiss. Or we could have singed Bolomboy to the same contract Paige and Wallace got with the Stars. It's not like we've been using him a ton with the Jazz.

1. Yeah, we could have just waived, but obviously they wanted the cap-space for renegotiating. And in general, it's always good to have cap space, you never know what opportunity might come up. We had 4 2nd round picks along with 2 first round picks, DL probably felt like he could take some off w/o sweating it.

2. If Bolomboy is on that kind of contract then we can't call him up for practices or games whenever we want. He could also be signed to a 10-day contract by other teams.

 

[stitches]

Complete waste is a stretch. If we didnt do that deal we would still have Pleiss and we wouldn't have Bolomboy on the 15 man roster.

And looking at the trade, we dealt the most and least favorable of our 4 2nd round picks this year. Not really a big price to pay for a chance at renegotiation Favors or Hill. Hill got off to a great start and probably convinced him to test the market and Favors was so bad this year any renegotiation probably felt like a lowball to him. DL cant tell the future.

We could have simply waived Pleiss and still would have 10.5M of capaspace + Bolomboy on the 15 man roster.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We could have simply waived Pleiss and still would have 10.5M of capaspace + Bolomboy on the 15 man roster.

Yeah but 10.5 isnt as much as 12.5.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

If only Stitches had a direct line of communication to Dennis Lindsey so he could drop all this salary cap knowledge on him.

We'll see how it works out in hindsight. But Lindsey is well aware of the situation and the rules. So let's just let him do his thing, it's worked out pretty well so far.

 

[stitches]

If only Stitches had a direct line of communication to Dennis Lindsey so he could drop all this salary cap knowledge on him.

We'll see how it works out in hindsight. But Lindsey is well aware of the situation and the rules. So let's just let him do his thing, it's worked out pretty well so far.

Heh, should we stop discussing anything basketball or salary cap related because the Jazz has people that know those things better than we do? Isn't that why we are here? To discuss stuff... with our non-expert opinions. You know... being fans and stuff.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Heh, should we stop discussing anything basketball or salary cap related because the Jazz has people that know those things better than we do? Isn't that why we are here? To discuss stuff... with our non-expert opinions. You know... being fans and stuff.

I wish you were around last week. Basically the board thinks you hate our team and are whiny if you want to discuss anything that might be slightly negative.

No new ideas... just high fives and first bumps okay.

 

[infection]

If you want a backup big man, you hate Favors and think he can't read good.

 

[SCS]

No, they don't really. You can always trade a contract that is massively front-loaded and is bargain in the last 2-3 years. What not using this capspace does is all but guarantees we cannot keep this team past next year even if we want to, because we won't have the cap to re-sign him without going deep into luxury tax.

Yes, it actually does give them the time to decide the best path going forward. If they decide they want to trade Favors and keep some financial flexibility to re-sign some of the younger guys on rookie deals or free up cap space for a big trade, they can. And if they decide they want Favors longterm, they can re-sign Favors in 2018. It doesn't really matter whether he signs now or in 2018. Either way they're over the cap. But if you extend him now... that's it. This is the team you're counting on to become a champion because the flexibility is gone.