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General NBA Craziness and How it Applies to Utah

stitches said:
OK here's me combining rumors and piecing together a Jazz team:

1. According to rumors Jazz are interested in Patrick Beverley
2. According to rumors ATL is looking for S&T deal for Paul Millsap

Trade 1:

UTA gets Patrick Beverley
HOU gets worse of OKC/UTA 2018 1st round pick(because they want to save capspace this yer)

Trade 2:
UTA gets Paul Millsap(S&T)
ATL gets Derrick Favors + Alec Burks

We give up on bringing Hill back, but we shore up the PF position. For the record I hate this deal(because I don't envy the team that will give Millsap his next contract) but I can absolutely see the Jazz doing something like this.

Resulting team:

PG: Patrick Beverley, Dante Exum, Raul Neto
SG: Rodney Hood, Joe Ingles, draft pick
SF: Gordon Hayward, Joe Jesus, draft pick
PF: Paul Millsap, Trey Lyles, draft pick
C: Rudy Gobert, draft pick, Joel Bolomboy

You can substitute some of the draft picks with a MLE or BAE level FA.

Thoughts? Do you think this is enough to get Hayward to stay?
Click to expand...
I like it?

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stitches said:
OK here's me combining rumors and piecing together a Jazz team:

1. According to rumors Jazz are interested in Patrick Beverley
2. According to rumors ATL is looking for S&T deal for Paul Millsap

Trade 1:

UTA gets Patrick Beverley
HOU gets worse of OKC/UTA 2018 1st round pick(because they want to save capspace this yer)

Trade 2:
UTA gets Paul Millsap(S&T)
ATL gets Derrick Favors + Alec Burks

We give up on bringing Hill back, but we shore up the PF position. For the record I hate this deal(because I don't envy the team that will give Millsap his next contract) but I can absolutely see the Jazz doing something like this.

Resulting team:

PG: Patrick Beverley, Dante Exum, Raul Neto
SG: Rodney Hood, Joe Ingles, draft pick
SF: Gordon Hayward, Joe Jesus, draft pick
PF: Paul Millsap, Trey Lyles, draft pick
C: Rudy Gobert, draft pick, Joel Bolomboy

You can substitute some of the draft picks with a MLE or BAE level FA.

Thoughts? Do you think this is enough to get Hayward to stay?
Click to expand...
And yeah, I think Millsap would help convince Hayward. I think Beverly is just good enough not to make him question the PG position too much. I really hope we could draft Derrick White if this happened.

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stitches said:
For the record, I don't like this situation at all. I much prefer our current roster with Hill and healthy Favors.

The thing I'm realizing is just how crippling the fear of losing Hayward is. I'm thinking about all sorts of stupid moves that would make Hayward want to stay more but will screw us long-term. If Hayward wanted to sign almost... regardless of what we do, I kind of like our pieces. It's when I try to bring in win-now pieces that I start cringing when faced with the possibilities.
Click to expand...

Outside of a monumental, earth shattering, massive move where we could acquire a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler or someone who is game changing like that I don't think any one move or combination of moves that we make will be the deciding factor in his decision. I don't think Hill staying or walking will be a deciding factor in his decision. I don't think at Pat Bev trade will be a deciding factor in his decision. I don't think telling him that Exum is the starting PG next year will have him wanting to leave. He either believes in the front office and the overall vision they have for the future, or he doesn't.
 
SCS said:
Outside of a monumental, earth shattering, massive move where we could acquire a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler or someone who is game changing like that I don't think any one move or combination of moves that we make will be the deciding factor in his decision. I don't think Hill staying or walking will be a deciding factor in his decision. I don't think at Pat Bev trade will be a deciding factor in his decision. I don't think telling him that Exum is the starting PG next year will have him wanting to leave. He either believes in the front office and the overall vision they have for the future, or he doesn't.
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I think bringing in another all-star like Millsap or Love sways him.

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
I wouldn't want to max Sap. I'm not sure how high I would go on him.

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Click to expand...

In this scenario(with draft picks filling up the roster, not FAs), if we give him 30M we are 5M into the luxury tax. He will need to be OK with about 25M per year in order for us to avoid the tax.

PG: Patrick Beverley, Dante Exum, Raul Neto -> 5+5+1.5
SG: Rodney Hood, Joe Ingles, draft pick -> 2.5+10?+1
SF: Gordon Hayward, Joe Jesus, draft pick->30+10.5+1
PF: Paul Millsap, Trey Lyles, draft pick->30+2.5+1
C: Rudy Gobert, draft pick, Joel Bolomboy +21.5+1.5+1.5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
124.5
Click to expand...
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
I was sick about the idea of Hillward leaving at first, but now I almost wouldn't mind seeing how the team grows in a different direction. I'm actually fine with however things work out from here, good or bad. Maybe that's because I'm a huge believer in Rudy as the key to our success. Then again, maybe I'm just naïve.
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I agree and I also am still quite certain that Hayward ain't going anywhere.
 
The more I think about trades, the more I realize... panicking and making moves just to make moves does nothing to make this team better, I've thrown around a ton of bad trades that I think might help us be slightly more competitive for the next year or two, but will kill us down the line... Activity is not always good. I don't want us to make moves that make no sense and strap us going forward. If Hayward cannot appreciate what this FO and team has done to make him successful and competitive... too bad. I'd rather we continue making sound decisions than doom the franchise's future in an attempt to impress Hayward. He either trusts the process and decisionmaking of DL and Quin or he doesn't. I kind of think that there's little we can do in the next one week that will seriously change his perspective on what has transpired in the last 7 years.
 
Cap is only gonna be 99M now, I think because of bad playoffs.

Pretty sure that's good for us retaining Hayward.
 
I think some of the proposed trades are about more than just keeping Hayward. I really liked last year's team. But look at our situation:

Hayward - free agent
Hill - free agent
Ingles - free agent
Favors - expiring
Hood - new deal decision this year
Exum - new deal decision this year
JoeJ - expiring
Diaw - non-guaranteed/expiring

I think all our trade chatter is because the uncertainty. If we stand pat assuming Hayward stays for the big max, we lose Ingles or Hill. That is all but guaranteed with this new $99 cap. Probably lose Diaw too.

Next summer, we are all but guaranteed to lose three of Hood, Exum, Favors, JoeJ and Diaw (if he isn't waived summer 2017). We very likely cannot afford 3 of 5 with Hayward staying, Gobert's deal, and Hill or Ingles.

So by not trading, we lose 4 important players and only add 4 low draft picks to replace them. I've thrown some trades all over the map out there. Some ridiculous and some intriguing, but moves are essential in my opinion.

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Bawse Dawg said:
God damn if you're putting together trades that end up getting you Porzingis for freaking Derrick Favors and Boris Diaw then just stop.
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I guess you don't get the concept of taking a salary dump as giving cap space as a asset. I bet there is one of you in the Nets forum who bashed another poster who suggested sending Lopez's expiring and a low 1st to get D'Angelo Russell and Mozgov's nasty contract.

Assets come in many forms.

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LoPo said:
I guess you don't get the concept of taking a salary dump as giving cap space as a asset. I bet there is one of you in the Nets forum who bashed another poster who suggested sending Lopez's expiring and a low 1st to get D'Angelo Russell and Mozgov's nasty contract.

Assets come in many forms.

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Click to expand...

Just take the L bro. Russell sure as hell is not Porzingis, and losing the Noah contract is not worth giving him up (I actually had to type out that sentence?).
Knicks want a top 5 pick and a talented young player. They don't want overpaid underperforming Favors and old man Diaw just so they can lose the Noah contract and give up one of the top assets in the NBA.

You're completely nuts if you think anything different.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Just take the L bro. Russell sure as hell is not Porzingis, and losing the Noah contract is not worth giving him up (I actually had to type out that sentence?).
Knicks want a top 5 pick and a talented young player. They don't want overpaid underperforming Favors and old man Diaw just so they can lose the Noah contract and give up one of the top assets in the NBA.

You're completely nuts if you think anything different.
Click to expand...
You need to read the whole trade

NY gets Bledsoe and #4 and get to dump Noah ($18 million per year)

Phoenix gets Favors, #24 and gets to dump Bledsoe and Dudley ($25 million per year)

We get KP but have to take Noah and Dudley

Its far fetched for sure, but there is logic behind it.

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LoPo said:
You need to read the whole trade

NY gets Bledsoe and #4 and get to dump Noah ($18 million per year)

Phoenix gets Favors, #24 and gets to dump Bledsoe and Dudley ($25 million per year)

We get KP but have to take Noah and Dudley

Its far fetched for sure, but there is logic behind it.

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Click to expand...

Is LoPo short for LowPotential?
 
stitches said:
The more I think about trades, the more I realize... panicking and making moves just to make moves does nothing to make this team better, I've thrown around a ton of bad trades that I think might help us be slightly more competitive for the next year or two, but will kill us down the line... Activity is not always good. I don't want us to make moves that make no sense and strap us going forward. If Hayward cannot appreciate what this FO and team has done to make him successful and competitive... too bad. I'd rather we continue making sound decisions than doom the franchise's future in an attempt to impress Hayward. He either trusts the process and decisionmaking of DL and Quin or he doesn't. I kind of think that there's little we can do in the next one week that will seriously change his perspective on what has transpired in the last 7 years.
Click to expand...

I hear you, but we were beneath the salary floor last year. Gordon must have questions about our willingness to spend. A little splash now (as long as it's reasonable) might be a good idea. Make a move that shows we are further increasing our arms, and that past frugalness was about waiting for THIS window.
 
NAOS said:
I hear you, but we were beneath the salary floor last year. Gordon must have questions about our willingness to spend. A little splash now (as long as it's reasonable) might be a good idea. Make a move that shows we are further increasing our arms, and that past frugalness was about waiting for THIS window.
Click to expand...

We also had the best offseason last year after GS and not only got to the playoffs but won a series in our first time back. We won 51 games with one of the most injured teams in the league, and had just Hill and Favors stayed healthy, we are probably a 55-60 win team. Now, if someone puts together a 55-60 win team and that is seen as incompetent/not doing enough, I just don't get that perspective.

Also, the salary floor is 90% of the cap, so being under the floor isn't as extreme as people make it sound. Not only that, but the Nets just used cap space to acquire a recent #2 pick simply by taking a bad contract that the Lakers signed JUST LAST YEAR. Cap space seems to be back to being valuable again, and as for me, I'd rather be a fan of a team that called that right than to be a Laker/Blazer fan who's FO misjudged the rising cap and threw money around to the point they now have to dump assets to fix their mistakes.

Some people questioned trading the #12 pick for a player that could leave in a year, but now some fans are saying DL didn't do enough to keep Hayward. Can't win. Absolutely nothing wrong with what DL did this last year and I hope he continues to spend wisely.
 
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