The wait is annoying (Hayward thread #896)

[Bawse Dawg]

Killing me man, I just honestly have no idea what he is thinking, how confident the FO is, nothing. Give me some stupid tweet from some guy who may know something
"Hayward leaning towards staying"
"Hayward prefers to stay with Utah but will explore options"
"Boston considered frontrunner to land Gordon Hayward"
Anything!

After winning game 7 on the road I was very confident in resigning him. And nothing whatsoever has happened with Hayward or the Jazz to make me feel differently, and yet my confidence has gone way down. Mainly because this 'super team' thing seems to be gaining a ton of traction round the league, as the only way you should even bother showing up to a game against the Warriors. While I think the Celtics as a ECF team are extremely overrated, I can't deny that their assets definitely put them in a better position to become one down the road. But at the moment they don't have many players that impress me, and Gobert is definitely the best player between the two teams.

It bugs me that Celtics fans act like it's a done deal too. I love Bill Simmons, and he's a huge homer so he can be forgiven I guess. But he talks like Hayward is already there. Celtics fans in general NBA forums when predicting next years lineup include Hayward Every. Single. Time. It's so grating.

Woj said something I agree with in his podcast. He was comparing Hayward leaving to when LeBron and Durrant left their teams. The difference in his mind is that those teams saw what they could do for several years before those players finally decided that the team couldn't go any farther. Jazz just barely got good, and for him to leave before we have a few years of sustained success would just really suck. Warriors are awesome yes, but there is a reason that teams don't win 10 straight titles, and Curry and Durrant are definitely not immune to getting injured. And even healthy, we are one of the few teams that can slow the game way down, and just try to beat them in a slugfest. Obviously they are the better team, but we could put up a fight. What if for the next five years we met in the WCF 3 or 4 times and had some great playoff series, even if we didn't come out on top, wouldn't it still be awesome?

Maybe I overrate Hayward, but he is the guy that makes the team go in my eyes. Are we even a playoff team without him with the Nuggets and Twolves on the rise? I like this Mitchell kid a lot on a good team able to develop and play 20 minutes a night. On a bad team? I don't see him moving the needle much at all.

I don't even care much about Hill anymore. If he's the difference for Hayward then fine, he's a good player. But I'd be excited at getting an established vet like Beverely for cheap, which frees up some time for Exum, and then doing a sign and trade for Millsap or something. That team could be awesome, and definitely good enough to avoid the Warriors until the WCF if it came to that.

I think I've prepared myself mentally for if he leaves. But if on that fateful day I see the 'Gordon to Celtics' Woj bomb then I'm not entirely sure how I'll react. It would suck to never see what this team could become. It just means so much more to us, than to Boston who has 20 players from every single sport who are more important historically than Hayward. He'd be a legend in Utah. This is long winded as hell, but that's how I'm feeling. Not even time to mention that Tatum is an SF and no one said one word about that impacting Hayward going to Boston.

TLDR: Hayward plz don't go.

 

[SCS]

I know how you feel. Logically I think he stays. I have from the very beginning. Stars usually have a reason to leave their current situation, money, a feeling that they've hit a ceiling with their current team, a problem with management/teammates, a rare opportunity to join a much better team - none of these apply to Hayward's situation. However I can't lie, I've had days filled with worry and concern. It's like a roller coaster. One day I feel good, sure that he staying. The next I feel terrible, for whatever reason fearing the worst.

But after last night I feel GREAT. We were aggressive in the draft. Boston didn't get Butler. They didn't get Kristaps. And they seem sold on Tatum being a star. They turned down a Chicago offer of Jimmy Butler for #3 straight up. So that tells you how much they value Tatum. The only big name left that seems to be available to them in trade is Paul George. And I don't think they'll go after George AND Hayward. They would have to gut their whole roster to do that. Which seems pointless if they're high on Tatum like they obviously are. I think they'll only target getting one or the other of George/Hayward. And if their pitch to Hayward is the same team that they had last year + Tatum then I LOVE our chances.

 

[stitches]

Steve Kyler said this week on his podcast that sources tell him the 5th year will be a significant consideration for Hayward. His co-host also said that an ex-Hayward teammate who's close to him told him earlier during the season that Hayward will pick his 5 year contract and stay.

Yesterday during the Yahoo draft show Bobby Marks mentioned that he thinks Hayward stays(no sources, just personal opinion it seems like).

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I know how you feel. Logically I think he stays. I have from the very beginning. Stars usually have a reason to leave their current situation, money, a feeling that they've hit a ceiling with their current team, a problem with management/teammates, a rare opportunity to join a much better team - none of these apply to Hayward's situation. However I can't lie, I've had days filled with worry and concern. It's like a roller coaster. One day I feel good, sure that he staying. The next I feel terrible, for whatever reason fearing the worst.

But after last night I feel GREAT. We were aggressive in the draft. Boston didn't get Butler. They didn't get Kristaps. And they seem sold on Tatum being a star. They turned down a Chicago offer of Jimmy Butler for #3 straight up. So that tells you how much they value Tatum. The only big name left that seems to be available to them in trade is Paul George. And I don't think they'll go after George AND Hayward. They would have to gut their whole roster to do that. Which seems pointless if they're high on Tatum like they obviously are. I think they'll only target getting one or the other of George/Hayward. And if their pitch to Hayward is the same team that they had last year + Tatum then I LOVE our chances.

Great post.

I don't think it can be overstated how HUGE it was for Utah's chances that Boston didn't land Butler or Porzingis last night. Hayward almost owes it to himself to go and play with one of those guys if given the opportunity. Now, barring something extremely crazy, Boston's big play option is to give up future assets for Paul George in what might end up being a 1 year rental. If your Gordon, do you really go to Boston and maybe play with PG13 for 1 year when you know for a fact that you can stay in Utah and play with Rudy for as long as you'd like?

Don't get me wrong, Brad Stevens and Boston's future assets still might be enough to land Hayward, but I think the way last night played out only helped Utah's chances. I'm of the opinion that Dennis Lindsay still needs to pull another ace or 2 outta thin air with Trades/Free Agency but he played the draft masterfully last night, and I see no reason not to have the utmost faith in DL to get this done.

 

[colton]

Steve Kyler said this week on his podcast that sources tell him the 5th year will be a significant consideration for Hayward. His co-host also said that an ex-Hayward teammate who's close to him told him earlier during the season that Hayward will pick his 5 year contract and stay.

I've been saying the same thing since the season got over. Hayward seems financially conservative enough to me that the extra guaranteed money in the bank is a HUGE factor, and why I'm still giving him a 70% chance of staying.

edit--and that was before last night. Maybe even higher now.

 

[Flc]

Steve Kyler said this week on his podcast that sources tell him the 5th year will be a significant consideration for Hayward. His co-host also said that an ex-Hayward teammate who's close to him told him earlier during the season that Hayward will pick his 5 year contract and stay.

Yesterday during the Yahoo draft show Bobby Marks mentioned that he thinks Hayward stays(no sources, just personal opinion it seems like).

That ex-teammate has to be Jeremy Evans, right? He'd know.

Rumors out of Boston this morning indicate that Indiana and Celtics may have a deal to acquire George with a 3 year extension in place, but it is contingent on Boston acquiring Hayward in free agency. That could be a smokescreen or an overly-excited Boston area reporter. It could also be the Pacers trying to up George's value to the Lakers or other inquiring teams (including, possibly, the Jazz.) If it's real, however, that would be all the motivation that Hayward would need to skip out.

I still think he stays, but that report has me nervous.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm feeling better about it today. We got another decent upside guy last night through trading up... we have some options or at least it's reasonable for Hayward to think we can retain Hill since the PG market is drying up.

Also, I don't think Ainge can clear the space needed to make a super team in Boston. So he's selling Hayward on hey it's better here... last year it was well reported that Horford would have stayed in Atlanta if they had poney'd up the dough... It was essentially the same cash and he said fine I'm out. Boston is not the FA destination people make it.

So you have Crowder, Bradley, Brown, Tatum, Smart that all play 2 and 3... I mean is Hayward looking at that as a better situation basketball wise.

I'm back in the 65/35 camp until Boston makes a move.... they still have to clear like $5M in salary... that will be the sign... if they get that done look out.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

I feel world's better after last night. Boston has Jaylen Brown and now Tatum to develop at small forward. It really makes little sense to bring in Hayward to take away those minutes. They could still pull a trade for George and trade away Brown in the process, but with Ainge holding tight to his precious treasures, I feel pretty good about it. I absolutely do think Hayward had one foot out the door, but I think the situation is in our favor for the moment.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

After winning game 7 on the road I was very confident in resigning him. And nothing whatsoever has happened with Hayward or the Jazz to make me feel differently, and yet my confidence has gone way down.. .

After game 7, I was the same, but watching him and listening to what he was saying in the end of season interviews, his body language was not good. He never said a single thing about being excited for the future or anything about the team, and even had some weird answers to questions like it was great experience and something he'd take with him. No doubt in my mind he had one foot out the door, depending on how things work out in Boston. Luckily, things seem to be going in our favor, so far.

Woj said something I agree with in his podcast. He was comparing Hayward leaving to when LeBron and Durrant left their teams. The difference in his mind is that those teams saw what they could do for several years before those players finally decided that the team couldn't go any farther. Jazz just barely got good, and for him to leave before we have a few years of sustained success would just really suck. .

Lebron, yes, but that is completely ridiculous to say about Durant. His team was up 3-1 on a warriors team that just set a record 73 wins. When the competition gets to that point, a lot comes down to pure luck and the bounce of the ball. Lebron won the title that year, and it came down to the last few possessions and just whoever gets the lucky bounce. If Kyrie misses the 3 at the end, warriors probably win.

Durant's team had a ceiling alright, and that was winning the championship. Any one of those 3 teams could have won it that year, and to claim that he had seen how far it could go and they were at their limit is a massive load of horse ****. All that is, is Woj kissing up to his buddy KD.

Hayward's situation is nowhere close to as favorable as KD's was, let alone better.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

How is this even like a real thing, that we have to seriously worry about? Who turns down the extra $ and year? Every example I can remember it happening there was a damn good reason. Dwight hates his coach, is on a bad team, and really wants to be a Laker. Durrant is with a ball hog and can join a historically good and fun team. And yet every time there is speculation

"He HATES it here, and wants to kill himself every second he remains on the team. BUT it sure is hard to pass up t
hat extra year and money, I think *bad team and organization* still has a shot to keep him around"

They don't always return but it's a real conversation. People seek stardom, or a good night life perhaps. This doesn't sound like Hayward. He enjoys a quiet life, video games, and his family. The Jazz FO and coach are professional and good. His team was built around him, he's the face of it, he's the star and the #1 man, no questions asked. Team just had success in the playoffs, and is primed for more. He'll probably have a statue some day if he stays, no one would ever wear #20 again. He lives in a quiet city, but why does he care for a big city? It's an amazing place to raise a family. His wife loves it here. Why would he even think of leaving this situation for less years and money? Because he likes his coach from 7 years ago?

 

[Jaymz]

How is this even like a real thing, that we have to seriously worry about? Who turns down the extra $ and year? Every example I can remember it happening there was a damn good reason. Dwight hates his coach, is on a bad team, and really wants to be a Laker. Durrant is with a ball hog and can join a historically good and fun team. And yet every time there is speculation

"He HATES it here, and wants to kill himself every second he remains on the team. BUT it sure is hard to pass up t
hat extra year and money, I think *bad team and organization* still has a shot to keep him around"

They don't always return but it's a real conversation. People seek stardom, or a good night life perhaps. This doesn't sound like Hayward. He enjoys a quiet life, video games, and his family. The Jazz FO and coach are professional and good. His team was built around him, he's the face of it, he's the star and the #1 man, no questions asked. Team just had success in the playoffs, and is primed for more. He'll probably have a statue some day if he stays, no one would ever wear #20 again. He lives in a quiet city, but why does he care for a big city? It's an amazing place to raise a family. His wife loves it here. Why would he even think of leaving this situation for less years and money? Because he likes his coach from 7 years ago?

I like this argument and have had a lot of the same thoughts. Jazz keep business so quiet that when they do let something slip it is intentional. Hayward has no real life reason to move from jazz unless warriors have an open spot. Hill will realize that he's not worth as much as his agent thinks and sign back with us for something respectable.

Sent from my SM-G900V using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Jazz and Utes]

Feels like the DeRozan deal from last year, everyone expected him to go to the Lakers but in turn took the more money/legacy with one team route.

 

[infection]

My wife started following Hayward's wife on instagram. My son told me he thinks Hayward is staying. I asked why he thought that and he told me because he bought his daughter a new inflatable castle that he probably doesn't want to move with it.

You heard it here first.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Minor things have it trending in our favor.

1. Celtics failed to get Butler.
2. Tatum and Brown play the same position (Hayward might feel Ainge is shrewd enough to trade him if Tatum or Brown blossoms rapidly).
3. Salary cap revised down again to 99m (more gutting required for Boston, but still possible).

 

[colton]

My wife started following Hayward's wife on instagram. My son told me he thinks Hayward is staying. I asked why he thought that and he told me because he bought his daughter a new inflatable castle that he probably doesn't want to move with it.

You heard it here first.

That's awesome.

 

[Jack Strop]

I've been saying the same thing since the season got over. Hayward seems financially conservative enough to me that the extra guaranteed money in the bank is a HUGE factor, and why I'm still giving him a 70% chance of staying.

edit--and that was before last night. Maybe even higher now.

It's not like he's going to only play 4 more years if he signs with Boston but would get 5 more years if he signs with Utah. He's young. He'll get another mega deal. In fact, he could easily just take out an insurance policy for the 5th year.

Besides, he could get a salary boost as a 10yr vet. So if he's smart, he'll sign a deal that would give him an opt out in 3 years so he can get a 35% contract.

 

[colton]

It's not like he's going to only play 4 more years if he signs with Boston but would get 5 more years if he signs with Utah. He's young. He'll get another mega deal. In fact, he could easily just take out an insurance policy for the 5th year.

Besides, he could get a salary boost as a 10yr vet. So if he's smart, he'll sign a deal that would give him an opt out in 3 years so he can get a 35% contract.

Easily take out an insurance policy against a career ending injury? Easy, yes, but certainly not cheap. Probably several million dollars at least. Or he could keep the sure thing. Which do you think fits his personality better?

 

[addictionary]

From celticsblog;

Celtics should acquire KoC:
https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/6/19/15835304/celtics-should-hire-kevin-oconnor

 

[Jack Strop]

Easily take out an insurance policy against a career ending injury? Easy, yes, but certainly not cheap. Probably several million dollars at least. Or he could keep the sure thing. Which do you think fits his personality better?

I just didn't like his body language and non-committal answers. At any point, he could have thanked the fans and said "hope to be back." Instead he said something to the effect that he'd take the experience with him. That sounds past tense, like he's leaving.

The billboards had him choked up. Said it would definitely play into his decision in one interview. Then he goes somewhat cold and gives wishy-washy answers. My read: he wants (wanted) to stay, but his wife and family want him to leave. And he can play under a coach who believes in him 100% and has a better chance of advancing to the Finals - especially if they get George.

I was just throwing in something a fiscally conservative person could do to mitigate the risk. What I really believe is he opts out of a deal in 3 yrs to get more money. So 5 vs. 4 years is not the defining parameter for his decision.

And this is my head speaking, not my heart. I REALLY hope I'm wrong.

 

[colton]

I just didn't like his body language and non-committal answers. At any point, he could have thanked the fans and said "hope to be back." Instead he said something to the effect that he'd take the experience with him. That sounds past tense, like he's leaving.

The billboards had him choked up. Said it would definitely play into his decision in one interview. Then he goes somewhat cold and gives wishy-washy answers. My read: he wants (wanted) to stay, but his wife and family want him to leave. And he can play under a coach who believes in him 100% and has a better chance of advancing to the Finals - especially if they get George.

I was just throwing in something a fiscally conservative person could do to mitigate the risk. What I really believe is he opts out of a deal in 3 yrs to get more money. So 5 vs. 4 years is not the defining parameter for his decision.

And this is my head speaking, not my heart. I REALLY hope I'm wrong.

Care to make an avatar wager? If he stays I get to pick your avatar for the next two months, if he goes you get to pick mine?