Roy Moore justifications

[LogGrad98]

Yeah, don't lump me in with you as an abuser of women.

That statement might apply to you but it does not apply to me or all men.

That statement is very much incorrect.

Most adults do not act like babies and have a need to test their limits.

You are very much in the minority on this one.

I actually read it as simply stating the fact that we all offend someone sometime, often for reasons we never intended. There does need to be some level of skin-thickening, IMO, just for society to function. And individuals need to own up and make amends when the situation warrants it. If we treat this like a train track with a run-away train we will all get run over at some point, and that seems to be the prevailing course right now. This really needs to be a two-way street with reasonable speed controls. babe is right that somewhere along the line cooler heads need to prevail and due process needs to take place.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I actually read it as simply stating the fact that we all offend someone sometime, often for reasons we never intended. There does need to be some level of skin-thickening, IMO, just for society to function. And individuals need to own up and make amends when the situation warrants it. If we treat this like a train track with a run-away train we will all get run over at some point, and that seems to be the prevailing course right now. This really needs to be a two-way street with reasonable speed controls. babe is right that somewhere along the line cooler heads need to prevail and due process needs to take place.

That might have been what he meant (I dont know) but that is not what he wrote.

What I quoted from him is a despicable attitude. Adults dont learn by testing their boundaries and particularly not with sexual abuse. We should not just do whatever gets tolerated and when we go to far back off.

No, there is not skin thickening that needs to happen. What needs to happen is certain people need to stop sexual abusing others. They need to be called out for it as much as possible. Yes, maybe some of these are made up but there is little to no reason for that. Yes, people accused of sexual assault need a due process, that is what the courts are for. I dont think they should go to jail until their guilt is proven. Unfortunately it is very difficult to get due process for women when sexually assaulted even by the courts. It is an awful process for them to go through and be drug through the dirt by defense attorneys.

It is a really simple thing. People who are sexual abusing and doing terrible things need to stop and they need to be held accountable and attention brought to it. For the majority of us who are not sexually abusing people we should not look the other way and should do something when we see it happening. That includes believing people when they tell you something happened.

What is happening now is great and not an out of control train.

You might get run over if you are guilty. For those of us not guilty of something there is nothing to be concerned about.

 

[fishonjazz]

That might have been what he meant (I dont know) but that is not what he wrote.

What I quoted from him is a despicable attitude. Adults dont learn by testing their boundaries and particularly not with sexual abuse. We should not just do whatever gets tolerated and when we go to far back off.

No, there is not skin thickening that needs to happen. What needs to happen is certain people need to stop sexual abusing others. They need to be called out for it as much as possible. Yes, maybe some of these are made up but there is little to no reason for that. Yes, people accused of sexual assault need a due process, that is what the courts are for. I dont think they should go to jail until their guilt is proven. Unfortunately it is very difficult to get due process for women when sexually assaulted even by the courts. It is an awful process for them to go through and be drug through the dirt by defense attorneys.

It is a really simple thing. People who are sexual abusing and doing terrible things need to stop and they need to be held accountable and attention brought to it. For the majority of us who are not sexually abusing people we should not look the other way and should do something when we see it happening. That includes believing people when they tell you something happened.

What is happening now is great and not an out of control train.

You might get run over if you are guilty. For those of us not guilty of something there is nothing to be concerned about.

But i would like to see the definition for sexual harassment. Is any comment about a woman’s appearance considered sexual harassment? From what I can tell, the answer is maybe.

It could get to the point where men just stop trying to flirt with women in any way cause they are scared that the flirting will be considered harassment.

I’m not sure if that would be a good thing. Men stop flirting with women, get to the point where they are so uncomfortable approaching women that they stop trying at all. That’s kind of sad imo.

I met my wife at a party. I flirted with her like crazy. We ended up married with a beautiful daughter. That was almost a decade ago. Maybe that never happens in the current climate and future climate. Maybe I never make any move to show her how I feel cause I have just been turned off by the whole idea of attempting to talk to a woman that I find attractive and would want to date.

 

[Ron Mexico]

But i would like to see the definition for sexual harassment. Is any comment about a woman’s appearance considered sexual harassment? From what I can tell, the answer is maybe.

It could get to the point where men just stop trying to flirt with women in any way cause they are scared that the flirting will be considered harassment.

I’m not sure if that would be a good thing. Men stop flirting with women, get to the point where they are so uncomfortable approaching women that they stop trying at all. That’s kind of sad imo.

I met my wife at a party. I flirted with her like crazy. We ended up married with a beautiful daughter. That was almost a decade ago. Maybe that never happens in the current climate and future climate. Maybe I never make any move to show her how I feel cause I have just been turned off by the whole idea of attempting to talk to a woman that I find attractive and would want to date.

Dont worry its not leading to men not being able to flirt or talk to women. Its pretty simple how to not sexual harassment or assault people. Make sure they are flirting back or wanting to talk to you. If you approach a women and she is not interested dont be rude or make inappropriate comments. Dont comment on how a women's attractiveness or lack there of at work. Make sure what you do with them is consensual. Dont abuse being in power over someone. Pretty simple things like that.

It sounds like you did nothing wrong in talking to your wife and it turned out great. That is how it should be. If you are not someone who is doing bad things to women you dont need to worry, continue to be respectful and decent member of society.

 

[fishonjazz]

Dont worry its not leading to men not being able to flirt or talk to women. Its pretty simple how to not sexual harassment or assault people. Make sure they are flirting back or wanting to talk to you. If you approach a women and she is not interested dont be rude or make inappropriate comments. Dont comment on how a women's attractiveness or lack there of at work. Make sure what you do with them is consensual. Dont abuse being in power over someone. Pretty simple things like that.

It sounds like you did nothing wrong in talking to your wife and it turned out great. That is how it should be. If you are not someone who is doing bad things to women you dont need to worry, continue to be respectful and decent member of society.

I don’t think I did anything wrong when I met my wife. But that’s just me. Someone else might have saw us flirting and took offense to it or found it offensive.

Sometimes I bet people think a person is flirting back with them, but turns out that they weren’t . Sometimes some people are just kinda “flirtier” than others. It’s just their personality.

South Park talked about this a little this week. The principal at the school and the vice principal fall in love. Because of the current climate of things they are scared to show each other they love each other.

Eventually they can’t resist anymore and get caught together. Everyone finds out that 2 co workers were together and start vomiting and being disgusted by the fact that co workers would date each other.

Work is a very common place for people to meet, get to know each other ( you spend a lot of time at work and a lot of time with your co workers) and end up being together and often families are started at work. Yet many people believe that the workplace is not a place to find love anymore.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I don’t think I did anything wrong when I met my wife. But that’s just me. Someone else might have saw us flirting and took offense to it or found it offensive.

Sometimes I bet people think a person is flirting back with them, but turns out that they weren’t . Sometimes some people are just kinda “flirtier” than others. It’s just their personality.

South Park talked about this a little this week. The principal at the school and the vice principal fall in love. Because of the current climate of things they are scared to show each other they love each other.

Eventually they can’t resist anymore and get caught together. Everyone finds out that 2 co workers were together and start vomiting and being disgusted by the fact that co workers would date each other.

Work is a very common place for people to meet, get to know each other ( you spend a lot of time at work and a lot of time with your co workers) and end up being together and often families are started at work. Yet many people believe that the workplace is not a place to find love anymore.

I watched the south park episode. It was pretty funny. Don't worry, thats not what's happening, it's taking it to the extreme and making fun of it like South Park does. Men won't stop trying to hit in women, nor will society find consensual flirting offensive or a problem. Having a conversation and trying to get to know a woman at a party is just fine, that's not at all what people are upset about.

It's about just basic respect and being a decent human being. It's not a slippery slope we are on.

You know what harassment is and what assaulting someone is. Don't do those and dont turn a blind eye to others don't that and you are fine.

As far as workplace goes it's not a place to pick up on people and bug them. It's not okay to comment on people's looks at work and harass them. But you can talk to your Co workers and get to know them in a polite way. You can even ask them out. But if they say no leave it alone and don't harass them. Don't pressure them to go on a date or to do something with you because you are in power over them. It's all really simple stuff for the most part. Just be respectful of people.

 

[Rubashov]

I don’t think I did anything wrong when I met my wife. But that’s just me. Someone else might have saw us flirting and took offense to it or found it offensive.

Sometimes I bet people think a person is flirting back with them, but turns out that they weren’t . Sometimes some people are just kinda “flirtier” than others. It’s just their personality.

South Park talked about this a little this week. The principal at the school and the vice principal fall in love. Because of the current climate of things they are scared to show each other they love each other.

Eventually they can’t resist anymore and get caught together. Everyone finds out that 2 co workers were together and start vomiting and being disgusted by the fact that co workers would date each other.

Work is a very common place for people to meet, get to know each other ( you spend a lot of time at work and a lot of time with your co workers) and end up being together and often families are started at work. Yet many people believe that the workplace is not a place to find love anymore.

Its less good if you work in a kindergarten and you're picking up the pupils tho...

My folks met at work, I've dated a co-worker didn't go very well, now as an employer I won't got near my staff.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Make sure they are flirting back or wanting to talk to you.

i see you have no experience with women!

so,metimes the signs are not clear, or signs are being misread

 

[Ron Mexico]

i see you have no experience with women!

so,metimes the signs are not clear, or signs are being misread

That is incorrect. It's really easy you just believe what people say. If she tells you she doesn't want to talk to you then you believe her. You are probably just trying to justify being shot down as games.

It's pretty easy to know when it is a friendly conversation or you are harassing someone and/or making them uncomfortable.

If you can't tell then you should probably steer clear and find some help with that issue.

 

[DutchJazzer]

That is incorrect. It's really easy you just believe what people say. If she tells you she doesn't want to talk to you then you believe her. You are probably just trying to justify being shot down as games.

It's pretty easy to know when it is a friendly conversation or you are harassing someone and/or making them uncomfortable.

If you can't tell then you should probably steer clear and find some help with that issue.

ok, well just recently my female cousin came over from netherlands for vaction in south america, we where into the night live, and one of the men i know. not really a friend. but i know him, knows his name, where he lives. certain details but we are not friends. started to strike a conversation with her. both seemed pretty into the conversation, so i gave them some space. after the nigth was over, my impression, another friend of mine, and his impression was ok, she was into him! boy where we wrong, she told me she did not like him at al and was disgusted by him! but she was trying to be polite!

you never know the true things going on

 

[candrew]

In common everyday occurrences, I would say 80% of all sexual harassment takes place when the guys ego doesn't allow him to believe that the woman is not interested and they won't stop pursuing.

I've seen guys make the most bizarre rationalizations to convince themselves that the girl is interested or playing hard to get.

The other 20% is women leading me on or purposely creating a "gray area" in a relationship and the guy takes it to place where his ego takes over and the woman doesn't feel in control anymore.

Sexual harassment derived from power is a different animal: this is just powerful men abusing their position. In many cases they don't even care if the woman is interested or not or they believe they'll eventuall "come around".

 

[Ron Mexico]

ok, well just recently my female cousin came over from netherlands for vaction in south america, we where into the night live, and one of the men i know. not really a friend. but i know him, knows his name, where he lives. certain details but we are not friends. started to strike a conversation with her. both seemed pretty into the conversation, so i gave them some space. after the nigth was over, my impression, another friend of mine, and his impression was ok, she was into him! boy where we wrong, she told me she did not like him at al and was disgusted by him! but she was trying to be polite!

you never know the true things going on

Did he harass her? Did he sexually assault her?

If no, than he is okay.

Yes sometimes people have conversations and act friendly to be polite. That does not get either of you in trouble. I am not discussing whether or not the person likes them. We are discussing getting in trouble and doing something wrong.

Again it's really really simple. Don't harass or assault people.