Roy Moore justifications

[fishonjazz]

Did he harass her? Did he sexually assault her?

If no, than he is okay.

Yes sometimes people have conversations and act friendly to be polite. That does not get either of you in trouble. I am not discussing whether or not the person likes them. We are discussing getting in trouble and doing something wrong.

Again it's really really simple. Don't harass or assault people.

Sounds like his cousin saying that the guy disgusted her and that she didnt like him and that could mean that he harassed her. Again though, harassment doesn't really mean the same thing to everyone and doesn't really have a definition.

So in this scenario maybe he was unknowingly harassing her but she just continued to flirt with him to be nice and never let him know that she was feeling harassed.
Is it harassment if the person being harassed doesn't say anything and the harasser doesn't even know he is harassing her?

 

[Rubashov]

That is incorrect. It's really easy you just believe what people say. If she tells you she doesn't want to talk to you then you believe her. You are probably just trying to justify being shot down as games.

It's pretty easy to know when it is a friendly conversation or you are harassing someone and/or making them uncomfortable.

If you can't tell then you should probably steer clear and find some help with that issue.

If you're chasing her around a pool table with your old fella out and she's not enjoying it you've gone too far...

 

[Ron Mexico]

Sounds like his cousin saying that the guy disgusted her and that she didnt like him and that could mean that he harassed her. Again though, harassment doesn't really mean the same thing to everyone and doesn't really have a definition.

So in this scenario maybe he was unknowingly harassing her but she just continued to flirt with him to be nice and never let him know that she was feeling harassed.
Is it harassment if the person being harassed doesn't say anything and the harasser doesn't even know he is harassing her?

No, it doesn't sound like he harassed her, although I don't know based on what was written. You are not going to get in trouble for talking to someone in this type of situation. It's pretty clear when someone has crossed the line. If he was just talking and being reasonably polite.

If he repeatedly asked her to do sexual things and she said no over and over and he made her fearful of her safety then there is a problem. If he pulled out his penis while talking to her then he crossed the line.

Have you read what people are getting in trouble for? All of it is very much cut and dry wrong. Al Franken seemed to be a lighter offense than the others but still pretty easy to see what he did was wrong. Forcefully trying to kiss someone, pretending to grab someones boobs while they are asleep and taking pictures. Those are not things you should do. Those are obviously disrespectful.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Did he harass her? Did he sexually assault her?

If no, than he is okay.

Yes sometimes people have conversations and act friendly to be polite. That does not get either of you in trouble. I am not discussing whether or not the person likes them. We are discussing getting in trouble and doing something wrong.

Again it's really really simple. Don't harass or assault people.

well, she did not enjoy the conversation, she was being polite. and if i hear them talk of the incident. she doesnt wanna see him ever again. and he thinks she is into him because she was flirting and leading him on!

my point is you never know the truth when communicating with the other sex . things arent clear cut. he did touch her forearm. and said some not so fun things. remember it was in some sort of nightlive sitution

 

[DutchJazzer]

Sounds like his cousin saying that the guy disgusted her and that she didnt like him and that could mean that he harassed her. Again though, harassment doesn't really mean the same thing to everyone and doesn't really have a definition.

So in this scenario maybe he was unknowingly harassing her but she just continued to flirt with him to be nice and never let him know that she was feeling harassed.
Is it harassment if the person being harassed doesn't say anything and the harasser doesn't even know he is harassing her?

something like that, although she said she did not flirt back. she thought because he is a friend of mine, being polite is best course of action! she did deny him a dance when he asked

 

[DutchJazzer]

bassically, what people see in musicals can be considered harassment! the excessive pursuit of the heart of some girl

 

[Harambe]

What in the blue hell is "and would do anything for them" supposed to mean?

 

[Ron Mexico]

well, she did not enjoy the conversation, she was being polite. and if i hear them talk of the incident. she doesnt wanna see him ever again. and he thinks she is into him because she was flirting and leading him on!

my point is you never know the truth when communicating with the other sex . things arent clear cut. he did touch her forearm. and said some not so fun things. remember it was in some sort of nightlive sitution

Not enjoying the conversation and not liking someone see different than sexually assaulting someone or sexually harassing someone.

Communicating about sex is clear cut. If you don't understand that you should figure that out before trying to engage in it.

I'm not sure what happened and you are being too vague. Without hearing the conversation there is no way to know if he was inappropriate.

If you want to share specific examples we can discuss those. This vague conversation you are referring to does not help the conversation or give us enough to draw anything useful from.

Again just really really simple, get consent for sex. Literally nothing is difficult about that.

Stop trying to pretend to be a victim and make this difficult.

You feel attacked because of actually victims are saying and fighting for. It's normal to be offended and want to kick back against that. But you have to realize you are not a victim in this and you need to listen to the actual victims. It's really really simple what people are asking for. Maybe I'll put together a simple quiz for you.

Which is appropriate ?

A. Raping someone

B. Pulling out your penis in front of someone without asking.

C. Making rude remarks about someone because they rejected your advances.

D. Using your position of power to get someone to have sex with you.

E. Cat calling a women by herself and following her around trying to intimidate her.

F. Politely talking to someone, respecting their wishes and getting their consent before doing whatever you want to do.


I know, it's a hard quiz. But just to be clear the only answer is F.

I'm not sure why a small minority of men don't understand how to not rape, harass and assault women. But if you don't understand, get help and stop.

 

[Ron Mexico]

something like that, although she said she did not flirt back. she thought because he is a friend of mine, being polite is best course of action! she did deny him a dance when he asked

Okay here is more specifics. Did he respect what she said when she said no to a dance? Or did he continue to pester her and try and get her to dance. That is the easy line to cross with being polite and seeking consent and harassing someone. Or did he assume that her being polite to him meant that she was into him sexually and wouldnt take no for an answer because in his mind she was just playing games. Again those are the really easy lines that people cross and should not. Its really simple.

 

[Stoked]

Not enjoying the conversation and not liking someone see different than sexually assaulting someone or sexually harassing someone.

Communicating about sex is clear cut. If you don't understand that you should figure that out before trying to engage in it.

I'm not sure what happened and you are being too vague. Without hearing the conversation there is no way to know if he was inappropriate.

If you want to share specific examples we can discuss those. This vague conversation you are referring to does not help the conversation or give us enough to draw anything useful from.

Again just really really simple, get consent for sex. Literally nothing is difficult about that.

Stop trying to pretend to be a victim and make this difficult.

You feel attacked because of actually victims are saying and fighting for. It's normal to be offended and want to kick back against that. But you have to realize you are not a victim in this and you need to listen to the actual victims. It's really really simple what people are asking for. Maybe I'll put together a simple quiz for you.

Which is appropriate ?

A. Raping someone

B. Pulling out your penis in front of someone without asking.

C. Making rude remarks about someone because they rejected your advances.

D. Using your position of power to get someone to have sex with you.

E. Cat calling a women by herself and following her around trying to intimidate her.

F. Politely talking to someone, respecting their wishes and getting their consent before doing whatever you want to do.


I know, it's a hard quiz. But just to be clear the only answer is F.

I'm not sure why a small minority of men don't understand how to not rape, harass and assault women. But if you don't understand, get help and stop.

I think it is more than a small minority. Far to many women deal with this (I'd say all at some point) for it to just be a small minority.

 

[Harambe]

I think it is more than a small minority. Far to many women deal with this (I'd say all at some point) for it to just be a small minority.

https://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/4977...umps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct

There's quite the list.

Fake edit: oh yeah... that's from 10/16. :eyeroll:

 

[franklin]

I watched the south park episode. It was pretty funny. Don't worry, thats not what's happening, it's taking it to the extreme and making fun of it like South Park does. Men won't stop trying to hit in women, nor will society find consensual flirting offensive or a problem. Having a conversation and trying to get to know a woman at a party is just fine, that's not at all what people are upset about.

It's about just basic respect and being a decent human being. It's not a slippery slope we are on.

You know what harassment is and what assaulting someone is. Don't do those and dont turn a blind eye to others don't that and you are fine.

As far as workplace goes it's not a place to pick up on people and bug them. It's not okay to comment on people's looks at work and harass them. But you can talk to your Co workers and get to know them in a polite way. You can even ask them out. But if they say no leave it alone and don't harass them. Don't pressure them to go on a date or to do something with you because you are in power over them. It's all really simple stuff for the most part. Just be respectful of people.

I completely disagree but I get the gist of your post and think I might be interpreting this sentence not in the way you meant it. It should be fine for me to compliment a co-worker on her looks as long as I don't say anything explicit or comment on body parts that are considered off touch. Telling another woman that you like her new fingernail color, or contacts, or how her different makeup today stands out, or you like her new blouse, or her hair looks nice is not harassment in most situations. Telling a co-worker you are friends with that you think their legs look good in those hills is not harassment, but that's situational as you say and something men should avoid altogether in the workplace anyway.