Rudy Gobert has got to go

[Archie Moses]

The times he played like last year when he was All-NBA 2nd team? When he was top 10 in most advanced stats? Or the small stretch of games where he was forced to play in a lineup with no spacing at the beginning of this season?

His stats, across the board, are down this year.

According to NBA statistics, very few centers peak after the 25 years of age in the NBA and their 4th year in the NBA. I remember discussing this with Zombie earlier this year (I thought players peaked much later, but boy was I wrong, especially with centers.) We may have seen the best Gobert already. Just something else to think about. He shouldn't be untouchable. It's bizarre this boards thinks of him as a top 5 or even 10 player in the NBA.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

His stats, across the board, are down this year.

According to NBA statistics, very few centers peak after the 25 years of age in the NBA and their 4th year in the NBA. I remember discussing this with Zombie earlier this year (I thought players peaked much later, but boy was I wrong, especially with centers.) We may have seen the best Gobert already. Just something else to think about. He shouldn't be untouchable. It's bizarre this boards thinks of him as a top 5 or even 10 player in the NBA.

His stats were marginally down this year early on and you aren't addressing that he is playing in a lineup that is terrible for him offensively. He was a top 10-15 player last season. If you don't agree with that then you argue against a ton of evidence. Even disregarding the peak argument which I think is pretty dubious and unsourced, If what we saw last season was sustainable for another 4 years then he should be untradeable. What we have this season is the team completely changing the pieces around him (going from 4 shooters to 2 shooters, and from a primary PnR partner that was a threat to score to one that isn't at all) and leading to teams doubling and shading to him instead of even guarding two other guys most of the time. That's just not a rational way to build a team around him offensively. We've already seen the configuration that works. 4 shooters, 1 being a stretch 4 of some kind, and Rudy.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

Before anyone bites my head off, hear me out...

I used to be the biggest Gobert fan. Great defensive presence, passion, etc. Now that he was injured for a couple games and back, you can really see how much better the jazz play without him on the floor.

While he was injured the jazz were scoring in triple digits every night and blowing teams away by 15+ points, since he has been back we've been losing.

It's so clear to see. When he's in the game, the jazz struggle offesnively, he's so big that he clogs the middle. when he has the ball he has no finess and zero fundamental skills for a big man. without him the offense seems fluid, efficient, fast, fun to watch. with him in the game slows down, these days the nba doesn't use big man like when we had malone and mark eaton.

i really also saw favors shine at center while gobert was out. what do you all think? i know we could have beat the past 3 teams if gobert was out, i know it.

thanks fellow jazz brothers and sisters. Go Jazz

1. Basketball games are not zero-sum affairs. We played teams with low defensive ratings. Playing a hapless team is not the same as playing a non-hapless team. GMs don't make these decisions based on small and uneven sample size.
2. Gobert is a phenomenal young player with even more room to improve, a virtual lock to be a perennial DPOY candidate.
3. Gobert is locked in with a solid contract. Favors's fate is in his hands looking forward.
4. Consider deleting your account.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

His stats, across the board, are down this year.

According to NBA statistics, very few centers peak after the 25 years of age in the NBA and their 4th year in the NBA. I remember discussing this with Zombie earlier this year (I thought players peaked much later, but boy was I wrong, especially with centers.) We may have seen the best Gobert already. Just something else to think about. He shouldn't be untouchable. It's bizarre this boards thinks of him as a top 5 or even 10 player in the NBA.

Virtually no player is untouchable. But your analysis is lacking and you offer no reasonable alternatives. With this and your Donovan Mitchell takes, I can no longer take you seriously and am forced to relegate you to the status of uninformed noisemaker on the forum.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Are there any stats geeks that can make sense of this? Gobert has a terrific offensive rating and offensive win shares. However, his offensive box plus/minus is pretty poor. What does that mean?

edit: I'm interpreting is as his offensive efficiency numbers are good, but the team as a whole doesn't do great offensively with him on the floor. I'm not sure if this is a good interpretation though.

He obviously can't create offense himself, so needs spacing to catch the ball and not get it stripped. He's not getting that in the current lineups.
DL might have thought Rubio was such an elite passer it would even out the poor spacing, but this has not been the case.

 

[Archie Moses]

Virtually no player is untouchable. But your analysis is lacking and you offer no reasonable alternatives. With this and your Donovan Mitchel takes, I can no longer take you seriously and am forced to relegate you to the status of uninformed noisemaker on the forum.

I offer no reasonable alternative because I don't like playing GM. I offered reasons as to why he could be considered tradable. To some, apparently, this hurts their feelings and is offensive. It's probably the same people that were offended when I said Mitchell couldn't shoot during the first 10 games of the season and struggled against NBA starters. I'm assuming you're one of these people.
You can negate my status, I don't care. You are a nobody to me. I'd rather you provide sustance and discussion as to why Gobert shouldn't be considered in trade talks rather than flaunt your ego and knowledge of the game. I've at least provided reasons that support my argument. So tell me, who's being the noisemaker?

Debate me, brah.

Hehepeepeecaca

 

[Archie Moses]

His stats were marginally down this year early on and you aren't addressing that he is playing in a lineup that is terrible for him offensively. He was a top 10-15 player last season. If you don't agree with that then you argue against a ton of evidence. Even disregarding the peak argument which I think is pretty dubious and unsourced, If what we saw last season was sustainable for another 4 years then he should be untradeable. What we have this season is the team completely changing the pieces around him (going from 4 shooters to 2 shooters, and from a primary PnR partner that was a threat to score to one that isn't at all) and leading to teams doubling and shading to him instead of even guarding two other guys most of the time. That's just not a rational way to build a team around him offensively. We've already seen the configuration that works. 4 shooters, 1 being a stretch 4 of some kind, and Rudy.

1. I have addressed this roster with Rudy and have done so multiple times.
2. I never said he wasn't a top 15 player. (But can understand arguments why he's not too.)
3. Source: (click on results to look at the centers and their peak age breakdown)
4. Since the dynamic of the team has changed so much, like you've said, then why is Rudy the undeniable one to build around? I don't think any GM would think this way. I absolutely think you can build around him just like I think they would discuss moving him if it made sense.
5. We have not seen any configuration of Rudy that takes us where we want to go. A championship.

 

[franklin]

1. I have addressed this roster with Rudy and have done so multiple times.
2. I never said he wasn't a top 15 player. (But can understand arguments why he's not too.)
3. Source: (click on results to look at the centers and their peak age breakdown)
4. Since the dynamic of the team has changed so much, like you've said, then why is Rudy the undeniable one to build around? I don't think any GM would think this way. I absolutely think you can build around him just like I think they would discuss moving him if it made sense.
5. We have not seen any configuration of Rudy that takes us where we want to go. A championship.

Gobert has to remain at the upper end of the 90th percentile range on the FiveThirtyEight's Carmelo Projection to keep last season's impact up for long. His VORP is still going to be high though even if it goes into decline.

 

[Archie Moses]

Gobert has to remain at the upper end of the 90th percentile range on the FiveThirtyEight's Carmelo Projection to keep last season's impact up for long. His VORP is still going to be high though even if it goes into decline.

His Carmelo Projection puts this year as his peak year too (unless I'm reading it wrong.)

 

[Park Bites]

OP has to go

 

[sahlensguy]

Why they ever thought pairing Rudy with a non shooting point guard was and is a good idea is beyond me. Rudy'' minutes should be limited now, and they should never be used up up while paired with Rubio.

 

[yamers]

i mean who the **** thinks rubio/favors/rudy is good for spacing i mean wtf

quin needs to fix the lineups.