Tak
Well-Known Member
Idiocy.
Rudy Gobert has got to go
- Thread starter feeko
- Start date
Idiocy.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Rudy hasn't played anything close to a top 10 player this year and it's not even close. His numbers are down, his fire is down and so is his health. He's not even a top 10 rebounder in the league. I'll be the first to brag about Rudy if he becomes a top 10 player, but he's not and never has been and it's not even debatable.
It's comical to me that people on Jazzfanz over value Rudy so much. Move Favors but Rudy is not untouchable.
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612762
Look at our lineups with him playing and tell me which net difference is anything but bad/mediocre.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
QFT
Yeah his numbers are down and he has had back luck with people falling into his knees. But last season he was a phenomenal player. The defensive gravity he created was something no one else in the league could duplicate. He was arguably top 10 last season. He will be so again. Gobert and Favors are not on the same level. There are three lineups that have been good with Gobert.
Gobert/Hood/Ingles/Mitchell/Sefolosha net rating +60
Gobert/Burks/Ingles/Mitchell/Jerebko net rating +28
Gobert/Rubio/Mitchell/Ingles/Sefolosha net rating +67
Only one lineup used by the Jazz has played over 100 minutes so far this season and it has Gobert, Favors and Rubio in the lineup. Those three combined are death and should not really be used against any of them individually.
This is all from your link.
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sahlensguy
Well-Known Member
Rudy doesn't "has" to go like is said in the OP, but Rudy shouldn't be untouchable either. That's just foolish.
Even before the injuries this season, Rudy has been exposed a bit, and the refs haven't granted him superstar status yet. Bad hands and no calls does not make one untradeable.
Even before the injuries this season, Rudy has been exposed a bit, and the refs haven't granted him superstar status yet. Bad hands and no calls does not make one untradeable.
Dali
Well-Known Member
Archie I don't think that you're a tool like some have stated, or other words they've described you, for creating this thread. It can be a debated topic 'to a small degree'.
What I don't agree with, for starters, is the title. You knew exactly what you were doing when you created the thread, and that it's going to be clicked. Are you secretly an aspiring journalist?
Gobert does not need to go, and the evidence you've shown is for an outright star, who has proven this over years. Not a small sample of barely a quarter of the season, not fully healthy.
Therefore, your evidence is fledgling, and needs a full season to transpire the way it has right now to be considered downright undeniable.
I don't think Rudy is untouchable as players like LeBron, Giannis (duh) but the return that we would need would just not be there, imo.
What I don't agree with, for starters, is the title. You knew exactly what you were doing when you created the thread, and that it's going to be clicked. Are you secretly an aspiring journalist?
Gobert does not need to go, and the evidence you've shown is for an outright star, who has proven this over years. Not a small sample of barely a quarter of the season, not fully healthy.
Therefore, your evidence is fledgling, and needs a full season to transpire the way it has right now to be considered downright undeniable.
I don't think Rudy is untouchable as players like LeBron, Giannis (duh) but the return that we would need would just not be there, imo.
Getting Traded
Banned
The game has evolved a lot because of the 3-pt shot. Two bigs in the lineup who have no perimeter game just won't work. If Favors could develop at least a dependable 15-20 foot shot, then maybe it would work, but then he would need to guard a more mobile 4, in all likelihood. This is really turning into a serious consideration, where and how Rudy fits in the future, and the direction of the team. The days of two bigs in the lineup seem to be over.
fishonjazz
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Fwiw I don't think a single person considers rudy untouchable. Pretty sure all of us could think of at least one other player that we would trade rudy for.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Gobert/Hood/Ingles/Mitchell/Sefolosha net rating +60 - Played a combined total of 4 minutes together.
Gobert/Burks/Ingles/Mitchell/Jerebko net rating - Played a combined total of 8 minutes together.
Gobert/Rubio/Mitchell/Ingles/Sefolosha - Played a combined total of 6 minutes together.
Basically, the best net ratings Gobert has are from very small sample sizes with lineups the Jazz rarely use.
When you say Gobert was arguably a top ten player last year, who is that according to? You as a Jazz fan. Has he created something on the defensive end hardly anyone call do? Yes, with that said, he didn't even win DPOTY. Show me a link to any article where a beat writer, espn, SI, reddit/realgm debates where people say Gobert was a top 10 player. If you think he was, you're wearing homer glasses imo.
If you could pick one, who'd you take. They both have very similar 4 year contracts. Anthony Davis or Rudy Gobert? No one would do that trade because only one of those guys is considered, by many, a top 10 player in the world. Rudy hasn't even been an All-star. If you are a top 10 player in the world, you do not get snubbed from the All Star game. I still think Rudy was an All Star level player last year though.
At the end of the day, I just feel like Gobert isn't untouchable and he's severely overrated by many Jazz fans. I can think of trades I'd pull the trigger on and would work. I'm sure the Jazz would listen to a legitimate offer made for Rudy. I don't think they'd offer him, but I'm not naive enough to think they wouldn't listen to offers that made sense.
Here's a trade that would work I'd absolutely consider, would you?
Lakers trade Brook Lopez (1 year left on his contract), Kyle Kuzma, Zubac and their 2018 second round pick for Gobert and Tony Bradley.
I'd consider this trade because Kuzma looks like a legit play-maker who can defend many different positions, spread the floor and is a threat at the rim as well. He'd be a nice player to build our future with Mitchell and he's younger than Gobert. Plus, since Lopez's contract is only one year, we'd have a lot more options we could do by moving players and acquiring draft picks.
Lastly, I think Zubac could be a really nice player in this league for a long time. I don't even think he's 20.
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sahlensguy
Well-Known Member
Really? The notion that the Jazz should be open to trading Rudy in this thread was met with a colder reception than hookers at the General Conference.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
You're the guy who just has insults and act like you're so much better than people - online. At least make an argument, man. Anyone can throw around insults online.
At the end of the day, most of the people that argue with my points on here are the ones that argue it with just insults, name calling and acting superior. I've at least made arguments and have provided resources that support my said argument.
One's civility usually matches up with their intelligence.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
That's a top 10 comment of the year on here. lol
NAOS
Well-Known Member
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Archie - I get the "jist" of what you're trying to say. And you are right - Gobert should not be put on some untouchable pedestal. He isn't a top 10 most valuable NBA player. However, he is a top 3 player at his position, a top 3 NBA rim enforcer, is young, under contract, and wants to play for our small market beloved Jazz.
Since the emergence of young Donovan Mitchell, I feel that keeping Gobert is even more important. When you have a dynamic wing like Mitchell, you want him to be aggressive knowing that he has help behind him. If we got Kuzma for Gobert (which the Lakers probably wouldn't do anyway without sending Deng), we add another scorer but leave our defense to chance.
We should be embracing a future of Gobert and Mitchell. They work together like Mutombo and Iverson but we need to do better than supporting those two with Eric Snow (Rubio) and Aaron Mckie (Burks) and Theo Ratliff (Favors).
Since the emergence of young Donovan Mitchell, I feel that keeping Gobert is even more important. When you have a dynamic wing like Mitchell, you want him to be aggressive knowing that he has help behind him. If we got Kuzma for Gobert (which the Lakers probably wouldn't do anyway without sending Deng), we add another scorer but leave our defense to chance.
We should be embracing a future of Gobert and Mitchell. They work together like Mutombo and Iverson but we need to do better than supporting those two with Eric Snow (Rubio) and Aaron Mckie (Burks) and Theo Ratliff (Favors).
I don't think any player is untouchable. Yes, Jazz players do overate Rudy and other players. I agree Rudy wasn't a top 10 overall player but he should have been the DOPTY, being in Utah kept him for doing so. The problem is Rudy hasn't developed any offensive game and is now playing with a PG who does not know how to use him as an offensive player.
The Laker team is not one I would consider. I haven't given up on Rudy, I give him a pass until he gets healthy and Quinn realizes Rubio isn't the PG to run the team.
The Laker team is not one I would consider. I haven't given up on Rudy, I give him a pass until he gets healthy and Quinn realizes Rubio isn't the PG to run the team.
Rudy is the future.
Getting Traded
Banned
I think Quin already realizes it. He was benching Rubio in the 4th quarter and starting to play Neto more, but now Neto is injured, though he should be back soon. I think he wants to ease Mitchell into his role. And in any case, Dante is coming back next year and they will be able to play them together, hopefully.
Douchebag K
Well-Known Member
Archiekins ... he was all NBA 2nd team , this isn't just some dude that Jazz fans rate. Sure, he's been pretty poor so far this year but he's been hurt and adjusting to new teammates etc. just relax, he's awesome.