Rudy Gobert has got to go

[Dali]

Numberica - if that being the case, then even more reason not to let him go.

Cy - I stand by the opinion that Wade is one of the greatest ever SG's, do you not? I think it's also fair that dirk might be best int player of all time, but it also took one of the worst superstar player performances of all time from LeBron which was also a factor. I didn't think they were a big reach.

 

[jazzrule]

Don't know how this will be taken. Rudy is not playing with the intensity he has played with in past seasons. I even saw him smiling last game. Maybe it is the injury or the contract, but he definitely is not playing as hard as previous seasons.

 

[Archie Moses]

Yeah.

Trading star players who have top 10-15 potential never nets even one better player within a 5 year stretch. I challenge you to find a trade like that ever.

Dude, we can start with the Jazz trading Deron Williams to the Nets.

 

[LoPo]

Dude, we can start with the Jazz trading Deron Williams to the Nets.

So you are saying Derrick Favors and eventually Enes Kanter ended up being as good or better than Deron Williams?

Really?

I was for that trade, but I thought Favors would pan out better than just a solid starter.

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[Archie Moses]

So you are saying Derrick Favors and eventually Enes Kanter ended up being as good or better than Deron Williams?

Really?

I was for that trade, but I thought Favors would pan out better than just a solid starter.

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Quin Murderface conditioned the scenario with a 5 year span after the trade. Considering DWill lost his game faster than Steve Francis, I absolutely think both Kanter and Favors played better over that time period and the Jazz won that trade. Many consider that trade from the Nets one of the worst of all time, too.

 

[infection]

People talk about getting good talent, or getting three star players, as the way to contention. Too often star player synonymizes with 'good scorer.' There's plenty of precedent to see that strategy doesn't always translate. If you have a star player who's a star despite his offensive production, then that's a true complementary gem that you have. It gives you the freedom to have two other guys who may be more elite offensively (easier to find), without diminishing anything from their skills or compromising what they bring to the table. You just get a lot more flexibility.

If you're forming a band, it's hard to find a drummer. Our discussion here is like wanting to toss out a skilled drummer because "hey I know this guy who told me he plays guitar."

 

[LoPo]

Quin Murderface conditioned the scenario with a 5 year span after the trade. Considering DWill lost his game faster than Steve Francis, I absolutely think both Kanter and Favors played better over that time period and the Jazz won that trade. Many consider that trade from the Nets one of the worst of all time, too.

That would be an interesting overall analysis.

Deron over the 5 years after the trade even at his worst was better than Kanter. Because we got Favors and eventually Kanter, we misused Millsap and let him walk. If you take Millsap and Deron vs Favors and Kanter over the 5 years since the trade, Deron and Millsap destroy them.

And don't forget, we let AK walk not long after the trade because of our new direction.

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[NUMBERICA]

Dude, we can start with the Jazz trading Deron Williams to the Nets.

You really didn't understand what he was saying because you just proved his point. Hard.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Dude, we can start with the Jazz trading Deron Williams to the Nets.

Exactly. This is the perfect example of a team getting less in return than they did by trading the star. Of course DWill fell apart, but the Jazz got a couple average non-Championship pieces in the lottery. You could maybe argue that Favors was a top 30 player one year of his career. This was a fleecing of the Nets and it still didn't help them get any closer to a championship. Maybe in this case since D-Will ended up injured it was a wash, but definitely not trading a Star player for like value.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

People talk about getting good talent, or getting three star players, as the way to contention. Too often star player synonymizes with 'good scorer.' There's plenty of precedent to see that strategy doesn't always translate. If you have a star player who's a star despite his offensive production, then that's a true complementary gem that you have. It gives you the freedom to have two other guys who may be more elite offensively (easier to find), without diminishing anything from their skills or compromising what they bring to the table. You just get a lot more flexibility.

If you're forming a band, it's hard to find a drummer. Our discussion here is like wanting to toss out a skilled drummer because "hey I know this guy who told me he plays guitar."

Excellent analogy. Rudy is very underappreciated by casual fans because he's not always up front and center. People get mesmerized by the front man or the guitar solo but forget that the drummer keeps everything together in a band. A good drummer is incredibly valuable and valued by actual musicians. Rudy is basically the perfect player on a championship level team. He just needs to be in a system that plays to his strengths offensively since he is a bit limited. But luckily the kind of system he thrives in is a modern one that is also insanely efficient. So you don't really sacrifice anything by trading mid range jumpers for more dunks and 3's.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Can we just take a minute to think about Archie's point?

So the Jazz "fleeced" the Nets by trading their franchise player, and right now, what they have left from that is Derrick Favors (who will not be here next year and would do well to get any 1st round pick for him) and half of Ricky Rubio who is incapatible with our roster/system (by way of the asset that became Enes Kanter that became an OKC 1st/two 2nds).

At the apex of the value of those assets, we had Derrick Favors starting at C and playing pretty good, Marvin Williams playing out of his mind (and setting up his role moving forward right before leaving), and Enes Kanter trying to make a record for worst +/- ever in the only tanking year in the franchise's history.

Yeah, the Jazz clearly got equal value on that deal.

 

[Jazz4ever]

The trade was equal, you could argue it both ways. The game was different back then, traditional PFs were still in vogue. Favors was oozing with potential at the time, he would have went #1 in some drafts due to his length and athleticism. The type of player you have to tank hard and ugly to hope to acquire.