Measurements

[LogGrad98]

Didn't Biyombo just dominate those who will make up the majority of that draft? If he's there at 12, you take him.

Apparently not enough people felt he "dominated" enough to be in the top 5. Talk of him being in the late lottery on some sites does not bode well for your "domination" theory.

Dude has a 9'3'' standing reach, a chiseled frame and can apparently jump out of the gym. You don't play the game with the top of your head. And the dude averaged 2.3 blocks and 5.1 boards playing only 17 minutes per game in the ACB (second best league in the world). Seems pretty monster-like to me.

If he is such a monster why is he rated 8th (in Mr. Colton's wonderful compilation draft), and 12th potentially in a weak draft class? If he just completely dominated everyone in next years draft class why is there talk on some sites of him going anywhere from 8 to 14? Why is he not the consensus #1?

 

[zbone]

I think we need to desperately upgrade our defense.... No one other than Favors even attempts to play defense anymore. Teams were driving easily into the lane against us last year. After watching playoff basketball, that just cannot happen. Nearly every team in the playoffs had a big who was a game changer defensively. And currently, nearly every team alive right now has a real solid enforcer down low.

Dallas: Tyson C.
OKC: Ibaka and Perkins
Heat: Udonis and that dude
Bulls: Noah

Jazz: Fess/Keri Holland/The Doctor who throws stuff up when they shoot free throws

Now I wonder why we're in the lottery and not playing against Dallas?

Do you realise that our own today's Fes would be easily this year's lottery pick and most likely ranked higher than Bismack?
I'm not arguing that we need a proper defensive big but I'm just trying to not be caught into annual unknown savior big frenzy and put things in perspective. This is a very ****** draft. Chances are you won't find what you are looking for this year.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

D-Will 2.0 and Biyombo = dream draft

This would be incredible!

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Apparently not enough people felt he "dominated" enough to be in the top 5. Talk of him being in the late lottery on some sites does not bode well for your "domination" theory.



If he is such a monster why is he rated 8th (in Mr. Colton's wonderful compilation draft), and 12th potentially in a weak draft class? If he just completely dominated everyone in next years draft class why is there talk on some sites of him going anywhere from 8 to 14? Why is he not the consensus #1?

Because Lady Luck is doing a lap dance for the Utah Jazz. Shhhhhh. Don't mess it up!

 

[BENTLEY]

The Biyombo detractors are just pointing out the very valid risks with any prospect. It's a gamble. Biyombo excited everybody after watching his defense in the NHS. But as time goes on people start to pick apart the guy's game. He has no offense. He'll be a project. The reverse argument is used on Fredette. He wows everyone with his offense, but then time goes on and people can pick apart his weaknesses - he has no defense. He'll be a project.

But IMO the ceiling of both Fredette and Biyombo is higher than a guy like Singleton. Hey, I was on the Singleton bandwagon for a little while but Billyshelby convinced me Singleton isn't without his warts either and his ceiling is much lower. So it's better to risk the pick on a prospect with a more unique skill set and hope it pans out. I'm not saying Singleton won't be a good. He might. But his ceiling's so much lower. His skill is lock down defense. This was Raja's skill (when he was young and good) and Raja went undrafted. This is pick 12 so let's aim higher.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I agree on Singleton. Watched him a lot, never been impressed with him as a lottery-type player .. even a weak lottery. We all have our opinions, I'd go for Kanter as bpa, maybe a Kemba or Thompson at #12, and get a 2G in FA.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Also, on Biyombo, how is it determined that he dominated anyway? He played the most minutes of any player, either team .. and despite his (admittedly) gaudy number of blocks, he;
- tied for 7th in scoring
- had more turnovers that anyone else from either team
- had exactly 1 more rebound than Davis (though Biyombo played 5 additional minutes)

He played well, certainly showed nice potential, but to say he dominated is a bit of a stretch.

 

[BENTLEY]

Yeah Biyombo's shine is from his blocks and the passion he played with. But his team still lost by 12. He's a project. But he's an exciting one. Don't know if he'll become anything decent but considering who else is available at 12 I'd take the gamble.

 

[The Thriller]

Do you realise that our own today's Fes would be easily this year's lottery pick and most likely ranked higher than Bismack?
I'm not arguing that we need a proper defensive big but I'm just trying to not be caught into annual unknown savior big frenzy and put things in perspective. This is a very ****** draft. Chances are you won't find what you are looking for this year.

No, actually, I didn't realize that Fess would easily be a "lottery pick" this year. Who says so, other than you?

 

[GVC]

If he is such a monster why is he rated 8th (in Mr. Colton's wonderful compilation draft), and 12th potentially in a weak draft class? If he just completely dominated everyone in next years draft class why is there talk on some sites of him going anywhere from 8 to 14? Why is he not the consensus #1?

I should have quoted more of your post. Here's the part preceding what I quoted:

If he were 7'2", and a proven defensive monster

The guy has adequate size, strength and athleticism to be a beastly defensive center, a much sought after commodity in the NBA, and one the Jazz have been lacking for many years. And, while his per minute stats (rebounds, blocks) in the ACB are monster-like, calling him "proven is a bit of a stretch, as this was his first year getting real minutes in a legitimate league.

His appeal is his upside. Ranking, on average, 8th in internet mock drafts, which oftentimes end up being wildly inaccurate, is hardly a knock on him. He was unknown just a few short months ago. His rise to this point is nothing short of amazing. I don't think it's out of the question the Jazz find at least a solid role player at 12, and the Jazz still need some of those last I checked. Biyombo seems to fit the bill.

 

[The Thriller]

I don't think this guy is as good as any of those even. This is where trading the pick (and other assets as necessary) to fill a need would be more valuable than adding a questionable project to an already very young team.


And you are seriously so high on Bismack that you think he will be the difference between lottery and WCF? Really?

You won't find any argument from me that Bismack probably isn't close to someone like Noah. However, the big P word is there. I'd rather have us roll the dice on him in hopes that he'll develop into that type of player. In a crappy draft like this, you gotta take what you can get. If he's the BPA at #12, well... Take him.

Most #12 picks have sucked anyway. Might as well try and improve our defense, length, and athleticism. I like Jimmer, think he'll be a good backup/fill in guy. But Biyombo is the superior talent. Roll the dice, swing for the fences KOC. You don't win championships going with the safe picks. Just look @ OKC, trading players all over the place to strengthen their frontline. They too, drafted Ibaka, a risky young kid from the Congo with no offensive game. There are very few players I'd rather have in that draft over Ibaka right now.

 

[The Thriller]

Some corrections/additions if I may:

Dallas also has probably the best backup C in the NBA in Haywood who makes his living on D.

OKC also has Nick Collison who has played some very key minutes. Nazr Mohammed isn't a slouch either. And if Aldrich can ever get minutes then he might be another guy for them.

Miami is interesting. They really don't have a traditional C of any import. Joel Anthony is the closest thing they've got, otherwise their success is because they have athletic superstars at 3 positions flying all over the place and caring.

Chicago also has Omer Asik, Taj Gibson, Kurt Thomas, and the most keen defensive mind in the NBA today coaching them. He might already be in the discussion of all-time greats in that regard (defensive coaching).


The Jazz are nowhere close. Nowhere close to having a defense as capable as those teams. They could if they get really smart and really lucky really quick.

I completely agree.

 

[LogGrad98]

You won't find any argument from me that Bismack probably isn't close to someone like Noah. However, the big P word is there. I'd rather have us roll the dice on him in hopes that he'll develop into that type of player. In a crappy draft like this, you gotta take what you can get. If he's the BPA at #12, well... Take him.

Most #12 picks have sucked anyway. Might as well try and improve our defense, length, and athleticism. I like Jimmer, think he'll be a good backup/fill in guy. But Biyombo is the superior talent. Roll the dice, swing for the fences KOC. You don't win championships going with the safe picks. Just look @ OKC, trading players all over the place to strengthen their frontline. They too, drafted Ibaka, a risky young kid from the Congo with no offensive game. There are very few players I'd rather have in that draft over Ibaka right now.

In a crappy draft then a trade should seriously be considered. Yes we need role players, but to add rookie on top of rookie, and especially projects from a crappy draft, to a team with 2 sophomores, both with plenty of room to improve themselves, is far from ideal. I think the 12 would be far better suited to trade out of the draft and perhaps into one of those role players who is also a veteran presence and proven in some regard.

Trade the potential of that guy for a proven role player to fill a need, then develop the 2 sophs and the #3 pick to round out the team. Maybe even trade into next years deeper draft for assets or players to plug more holes. If we play this right, and shrewdly, we can rebuild in hurry with a pretty young, but dynamic team. If we draft projects just because it is the best we can do in a crappy draft it will hold us back.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Well put. I do not think a single player in this draft will get us that much closer to this goal, especially picked at #12. Trading it is a better option, even if it is just to move into next year's draft which stands to be much deeper.

Using your description; "Ben Wallace lite" doesn't help us get there?

 

[LogGrad98]

Using your description; "Ben Wallace lite" doesn't help us get there?

Lite being the operative word in that phrase. Ben Wallace was a defensive beast after a few years in the league and then for a few years. He actually faded pretty fast all things considered. As soon as he started losing defensive intensity, with no offensive game at all, he soon lost relevancy. I don't think the "lite" version of that, unproven, is really what we need to bank on. And I seriously do not want to add a project like that to our team with the already young and promising players we have now. Favors has a chance to be far better offensively and just as good defensively IMO, so I don't see that as a need bad enough to blow a decently high pick on someone who is so raw he will likely be years behind Favors, Hayward, and whoever we get at #3 when they are coming into their own as a group. I still think this pick is better traded to fill a need, rather than taking someone who may or may not develop into something worth having.

 

[billyshelby]

A 'few years' is 6 straight seasons. That's a lifetime in the NBA. During that stretch he won Defensive Player of the Year 4 times and was on the All NBA Defensive Team 6 times. And it's not like he sucked before or after it. That's an exceedingly rare player and if you can get the "Lite" version of that you've truly won the lottery.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Lite being the operative word in that phrase. Ben Wallace was a defensive beast after a few years in the league and then for a few years. He actually faded pretty fast all things considered. As soon as he started losing defensive intensity, with no offensive game at all, he soon lost relevancy. I don't think the "lite" version of that, unproven, is really what we need to bank on. And I seriously do not want to add a project like that to our team with the already young and promising players we have now. Favors has a chance to be far better offensively and just as good defensively IMO, so I don't see that as a need bad enough to blow a decently high pick on someone who is so raw he will likely be years behind Favors, Hayward, and whoever we get at #3 when they are coming into their own as a group. I still think this pick is better traded to fill a need, rather than taking someone who may or may not develop into something worth having.

Biyombo is raw but we more or less doing a total rebuild here so can afford to wait. Biyombo is the only big in this draft with elite measurements to go along with athleticism. The fact that his actual height is short in comparison to his length is a benefit. It means he is overall quicker at moving his feet, running the floor, and guard multiple positions. He is a project, but one that has all the tools in spades in his shed.

 

[BENTLEY]

I thought it'd be fun to look a closer at the team needs of those drafting before the Jazz' 12th pick - clinging to hope that Biyombo slips all the way to 12.
The teams that scare me are bolded.

Top 3 picks are: Irving/DWill/Kanter.

4. CAVALIERS: Jonas or Knight. I doubt they gamble on Bismack at pick 4.

5. RAPTORS: Knight or Kemba or Jonas. I dunno, but I doubt Colangelo will gamble on Bismack here since there are less risky prospects that fill Toronto's needs.

6. WIZARDS: Vesely probably. Ford thinks they can't pass on Vesely here. I've also read perhaps Leonard. They already have Mcgee and Blatche so I think Bismack slips past them.

7. KINGS : Kemba or Knight or Leonard probably. I read they're looking for PGs and small forwards.

8. PISTONS: Bismack/Marcus Morris/Thompson/Leonard. Ford thinks they take Thompson. Bismack could help their rebounding but, with Prince and T-mac's free agency I've also heard they're in need of a small forward. Still, this is the first team that I'm really worried will take Bismack.

9. BOBCATS: Bismack/Thompson/Marcus Morris. I've read they could use a big who can rebound and they can also use a scorer from any position. Even though he has no offensive game Bismack could be taken here. Or they could opt for a safer bet. I don't know, I can't get a read on the bobcats.

10. BUCKS : Burks. (Mil loves him) - this seems likely. Plus they have Bogut so I'm not sure they bother gambling on Bismack.

11. WARRIORS: Bismack/Motiejunas/Singleton. They aren't happy with Biedrins but with his contract they can't trade him. Bismack is a possibility. I also read they need perimeter defense, which explains why I heard they might take Singleton, who is shooting up draft boards. The Warriors could go in any direction. They need some direction. They don't have a coach so maybe even they don't know what they will do.

12. JAZZ: ?

 

[LogGrad98]

A 'few years' is 6 straight seasons. That's a lifetime in the NBA. During that stretch he won Defensive Player of the Year 4 times and was on the All NBA Defensive Team 6 times. And it's not like he sucked before or after it. That's an exceedingly rare player and if you can get the "Lite" version of that you've truly won the lottery.

Exceedingly rare and "if" are not all that encouraging.

I still find it funny how high you guys all are on a guy who is slipping in mocks and not getting talked about very highly. How many Ben Wallaces have there been? One? No matter what, this guy is a project and the 12th pick is an asset we can use to improve with a proven player via trade, or to move into next years draft which is shaping up to be much deeper. Not to mention with the new CBA it is possible that 2 first round guaranteed salaries from this draft could hamper our growth with a lower cap. And yes of course we are rebuilding, but with 2 lottery picks this year, one next year and some assets on the team already we are in a position to make a move quickly via trades. Drafting a very raw project that might takes years to get where we need him to be, along with all the other young players on the team, is not the best use of that pick imo.

 

[BENTLEY]

If trading the pick gets the Jazz picks in the 2012 draft I'd be thrilled. I'm just not sure if it's possible - 2012 draft is considered pretty nice so those picks are probably valued pretty highly.