Measurements

[LogGrad98]

You won't find any argument from me that Bismack probably isn't close to someone like Noah. However, the big P word is there. I'd rather have us roll the dice on him in hopes that he'll develop into that type of player. In a crappy draft like this, you gotta take what you can get. If he's the BPA at #12, well... Take him.

Most #12 picks have sucked anyway. Might as well try and improve our defense, length, and athleticism. I like Jimmer, think he'll be a good backup/fill in guy. But Biyombo is the superior talent. Roll the dice, swing for the fences KOC. You don't win championships going with the safe picks. Just look @ OKC, trading players all over the place to strengthen their frontline. They too, drafted Ibaka, a risky young kid from the Congo with no offensive game. There are very few players I'd rather have in that draft over Ibaka right now.

In a crappy draft then a trade should seriously be considered. Yes we need role players, but to add rookie on top of rookie, and especially projects from a crappy draft, to a team with 2 sophomores, both with plenty of room to improve themselves, is far from ideal. I think the 12 would be far better suited to trade out of the draft and perhaps into one of those role players who is also a veteran presence and proven in some regard.

Trade the potential of that guy for a proven role player to fill a need, then develop the 2 sophs and the #3 pick to round out the team. Maybe even trade into next years deeper draft for assets or players to plug more holes. If we play this right, and shrewdly, we can rebuild in hurry with a pretty young, but dynamic team. If we draft projects just because it is the best we can do in a crappy draft it will hold us back.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Well put. I do not think a single player in this draft will get us that much closer to this goal, especially picked at #12. Trading it is a better option, even if it is just to move into next year's draft which stands to be much deeper.

Using your description; "Ben Wallace lite" doesn't help us get there?

 

[LogGrad98]

Using your description; "Ben Wallace lite" doesn't help us get there?

Lite being the operative word in that phrase. Ben Wallace was a defensive beast after a few years in the league and then for a few years. He actually faded pretty fast all things considered. As soon as he started losing defensive intensity, with no offensive game at all, he soon lost relevancy. I don't think the "lite" version of that, unproven, is really what we need to bank on. And I seriously do not want to add a project like that to our team with the already young and promising players we have now. Favors has a chance to be far better offensively and just as good defensively IMO, so I don't see that as a need bad enough to blow a decently high pick on someone who is so raw he will likely be years behind Favors, Hayward, and whoever we get at #3 when they are coming into their own as a group. I still think this pick is better traded to fill a need, rather than taking someone who may or may not develop into something worth having.

 

[billyshelby]

A 'few years' is 6 straight seasons. That's a lifetime in the NBA. During that stretch he won Defensive Player of the Year 4 times and was on the All NBA Defensive Team 6 times. And it's not like he sucked before or after it. That's an exceedingly rare player and if you can get the "Lite" version of that you've truly won the lottery.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Lite being the operative word in that phrase. Ben Wallace was a defensive beast after a few years in the league and then for a few years. He actually faded pretty fast all things considered. As soon as he started losing defensive intensity, with no offensive game at all, he soon lost relevancy. I don't think the "lite" version of that, unproven, is really what we need to bank on. And I seriously do not want to add a project like that to our team with the already young and promising players we have now. Favors has a chance to be far better offensively and just as good defensively IMO, so I don't see that as a need bad enough to blow a decently high pick on someone who is so raw he will likely be years behind Favors, Hayward, and whoever we get at #3 when they are coming into their own as a group. I still think this pick is better traded to fill a need, rather than taking someone who may or may not develop into something worth having.

Biyombo is raw but we more or less doing a total rebuild here so can afford to wait. Biyombo is the only big in this draft with elite measurements to go along with athleticism. The fact that his actual height is short in comparison to his length is a benefit. It means he is overall quicker at moving his feet, running the floor, and guard multiple positions. He is a project, but one that has all the tools in spades in his shed.

 

[BENTLEY]

I thought it'd be fun to look a closer at the team needs of those drafting before the Jazz' 12th pick - clinging to hope that Biyombo slips all the way to 12.
The teams that scare me are bolded.

Top 3 picks are: Irving/DWill/Kanter.

4. CAVALIERS: Jonas or Knight. I doubt they gamble on Bismack at pick 4.

5. RAPTORS: Knight or Kemba or Jonas. I dunno, but I doubt Colangelo will gamble on Bismack here since there are less risky prospects that fill Toronto's needs.

6. WIZARDS: Vesely probably. Ford thinks they can't pass on Vesely here. I've also read perhaps Leonard. They already have Mcgee and Blatche so I think Bismack slips past them.

7. KINGS : Kemba or Knight or Leonard probably. I read they're looking for PGs and small forwards.

8. PISTONS: Bismack/Marcus Morris/Thompson/Leonard. Ford thinks they take Thompson. Bismack could help their rebounding but, with Prince and T-mac's free agency I've also heard they're in need of a small forward. Still, this is the first team that I'm really worried will take Bismack.

9. BOBCATS: Bismack/Thompson/Marcus Morris. I've read they could use a big who can rebound and they can also use a scorer from any position. Even though he has no offensive game Bismack could be taken here. Or they could opt for a safer bet. I don't know, I can't get a read on the bobcats.

10. BUCKS : Burks. (Mil loves him) - this seems likely. Plus they have Bogut so I'm not sure they bother gambling on Bismack.

11. WARRIORS: Bismack/Motiejunas/Singleton. They aren't happy with Biedrins but with his contract they can't trade him. Bismack is a possibility. I also read they need perimeter defense, which explains why I heard they might take Singleton, who is shooting up draft boards. The Warriors could go in any direction. They need some direction. They don't have a coach so maybe even they don't know what they will do.

12. JAZZ: ?

 

[LogGrad98]

A 'few years' is 6 straight seasons. That's a lifetime in the NBA. During that stretch he won Defensive Player of the Year 4 times and was on the All NBA Defensive Team 6 times. And it's not like he sucked before or after it. That's an exceedingly rare player and if you can get the "Lite" version of that you've truly won the lottery.

Exceedingly rare and "if" are not all that encouraging.

I still find it funny how high you guys all are on a guy who is slipping in mocks and not getting talked about very highly. How many Ben Wallaces have there been? One? No matter what, this guy is a project and the 12th pick is an asset we can use to improve with a proven player via trade, or to move into next years draft which is shaping up to be much deeper. Not to mention with the new CBA it is possible that 2 first round guaranteed salaries from this draft could hamper our growth with a lower cap. And yes of course we are rebuilding, but with 2 lottery picks this year, one next year and some assets on the team already we are in a position to make a move quickly via trades. Drafting a very raw project that might takes years to get where we need him to be, along with all the other young players on the team, is not the best use of that pick imo.

 

[BENTLEY]

If trading the pick gets the Jazz picks in the 2012 draft I'd be thrilled. I'm just not sure if it's possible - 2012 draft is considered pretty nice so those picks are probably valued pretty highly.

 

[billyshelby]

How many big men in recent drafts have even been compared to Wallace for his defensive potential? It's not a comparison that gets thrown around lightly. Yeah, KOC has to determine how close he can get to Wallace defensively. But an elite defensive big is one of the most difficult things to find. Look at the extensions guys like Perkins, Varejeo, or Haywood signed, and those guys can't score a lick. Tyson Chandler's going to get paid and his offensive arsenal is the dunk. Noah just got a fat extension and he made the 2nd Team in his 4th year. It's a premium skill in the league that doesn't come around often.

 

[NAOS]

Exceedingly rare and "if" are not all that encouraging.

I still find it funny how high you guys all are on a guy who is slipping in mocks and not getting talked about very highly. How many Ben Wallaces have there been? One? No matter what, this guy is a project and the 12th pick is an asset we can use to improve with a proven player via trade, or to move into next years draft which is shaping up to be much deeper. Not to mention with the new CBA it is possible that 2 first round guaranteed salaries from this draft could hamper our growth with a lower cap. And yes of course we are rebuilding, but with 2 lottery picks this year, one next year and some assets on the team already we are in a position to make a move quickly via trades. Drafting a very raw project that might takes years to get where we need him to be, along with all the other young players on the team, is not the best use of that pick imo.

I'd attribute much of Biyombo's recent slide in the mocks to the buzz created by the combine -- a buzz that will subside. As soon as Biyombo steps out on the floor with his competition in any team workouts he's going to show his rare gifts and re-ascend the mocks. book it.

And if you are referring to that gaggle of geese that was covering the combine on ESPNU when you say that Biyombo wasn't being regarded highly.... well, I'd suggest you re-watch or listen to their conversations since they were saying a lot of contradictory stuff over the course of 8 long hours. I put almost ZERO stock in what they said -- some of it was flat-out wrong, other stuff was conflicted, and then there are the two college homers that don't like anybody that didn't play 2 to 4 years for the NCAA.

 

[zbone]

No, actually, I didn't realize that Fess would easily be a "lottery pick" this year. Who says so, other than you?

Because Fes is bigger and have better offensive skills than Byombo. Although, he still gets crucified on this board for being total liability on offense. I'm comparing their intangibles and see that today Fes is a better player overall. Like it or not.

 

[BENTLEY]

Because Fes is bigger and have better offensive skills than Byombo. Although, he still gets crucified on this board for being total liability on offense. I'm comparing their intangibles and see that today Fes is a better player overall. Like it or not.

Difference is motor. Fes doesn't have one sometimes. It's early but it looks like Bismack's motor is something to drool over.
But I like Fes. I love his size and he's funny. I'm running out of patience with him but I still think him on the floor is a good thing overall. I'd love him back for the right price.