Tell Us Who Got Banned Thread Closed?
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Well, again, he didn't get banned for only that; that was just the final straw. And at least 3 moderators disagreed with you and believed that that particular post violated site rules.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, you guys can and will run and mod this site as you see fit. I can't say I've read Dutch's racists posts or even posts where he attacks people and support him being banned for said posts. The large % of the time I skip his posts so I could very well miss many things that he posts that breaks rules or is offensive or warrants an infraction. The problem is, the posts I have seen of his that people label racist or problematic are usually translated and interpretated into something more than what he actually posted and, to me, that's not fair. Plus, English isn't the guy's first language. There is a clear language barrier on what he writes. Again, to me, the post that broke the camel's back was weak and a witch hunt (not trying to back seat mod, do how you see fit, just my two-cents.)
Dutch can be certainly obnoxious, opinionated, and posts stuff to get reactions. However, I've recently read things he's posted on here that show his progression and and absolutely refute some of the claims of he's racists, homophobic, etc - dude shared some pretty cool stories I give him props for. I don't know anything about his culture and how he was brought up, but just because we have the US mentality of it's 2018 and if you don't think this way now or say that then you are racist, homophobic, a bigot, doesn't mean that it's fair or productive. I mean, I get why we do it - society has a history of being backwards, but sometimes understanding other's points of views and working on common ground is the most effective way to not only change them, but many others too.
When I first joined jazzfanz back in 2008 I was active LDS. Looking back, I would have said I wasn't homophobic or a bigot at all because I believed in the principles in which I was taught on a religious basis. I would have thought, "Well, I can talk to homosexuals and have a few mutual friends so I'm definitely not homophobic." I didn't support gay marriage and other social issues that would be looked down upon highly in 2018. Old school mentality. This isn't to say those with religious beliefs are homophobes and bigots. This is to say, that over the years, the more I've educated myself about certain social issues, the more I realize I've come a long ways to be a better person, for me, in 2018 and over the years.
I can be a handful on here and I get it. I know some of my povs rub people wrong, but I give jazzfanz credit in helping my critical thinking skills, seeing the other side if the argument the best I can, and changing to be a person, in my opinion, that's way better than now than I was 10 years ago when I started posting on here.
Sorry for the rant. Again, like I said I don't read much of Dutch's posts. The ones I have though, I can relate to a certain degree and see his progression. It be cool if Dutch changed based off of other's civil thoughts and posts on Jazzfanz rather than being closely watched over to boot because his political opinions rub you wrong.
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Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
Seconded.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
Save it, Nancy.
I’m open to a discussion and poll. Not promising it will change things but if a majority feel that links to NSFW (specifically videos that swear) are fine, then I’ll consider it. I just don’t want people to load up AntifaFanzz at work and get in trouble with IT organizations or the like. But a link to a video offsite with a warning clearly outlined, I can understand.
Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
The biggest annoyance for me is if I want to upload a song with some swears in it. I can usually find a radio version, but the video part is often not as good.
But how often do I even upload music videos (too often) and how often do I listen to music videos other people post (almost never)?
But how often do I even upload music videos (too often) and how often do I listen to music videos other people post (almost never)?
I haven't reported a Dutch post since he came back from his previous ban. But I will say that I have reported probably more than 20 posts by Dutch and either each report was a clear violation of board rules or was evidence of a pattern of behavior that was as a whole a violation of board rules.
I don't want to see people get banned.
I don't want to silence people I don't agree with.
Dutch was, as I believe Moe pointed out, intentionally obtuse. He was not engaging in honest discourse. He was not attempting to exchange ideas. I know this because I beat my head against a wall literally hundreds of times trying to have a real conversation with him. He was screaming his rather simplistic views at all of us, inserting them in threads they had little place, and repeating them ad nauseum. He frequently posted anti-female slurs, anti-LGBTQ... slurs, referred to Muslims as animals and barbarians several times, to the point that 90+% of his posts were pushing his hateful ideology.
I posted that he seemed to be an adherent of "The Red Pill" ideology. He made several direct references to having taken "TRP" and his views follow with theirs. TRP is a group who believes that men, in particular heterosexual caucasian men, have been put into an inferior position in our society. That men are actually disadvantaged. The initial draw to TRP is dating advice. Their dating advice borders on advocacy for rape and sexual assault, because men essentially have a right to express their sexual desires in highly aggressive and selfish ways, with no regard for the feelings or outcomes of women, who are generally just trying to manipulate and emasculate these poor men.
Anyway... As Dutch was basically just a mouthpiece for TRP propaganda, doing his very best to deliver his message without violating board rules or turning off potential recruits before they could be properly indoctrinated, I saw no value at all in his presence here. I saw no reason why Jason should allow him to continue to post here if he continued to disrespect the community and the forum rules.
Anyone who is interested in different views and misses Dutch's contribution, go to reddit subforum "The Red Pill" and you can learn all about anything Dutch was ever going to tell you. You're welcome!
I don't want to see people get banned.
I don't want to silence people I don't agree with.
Dutch was, as I believe Moe pointed out, intentionally obtuse. He was not engaging in honest discourse. He was not attempting to exchange ideas. I know this because I beat my head against a wall literally hundreds of times trying to have a real conversation with him. He was screaming his rather simplistic views at all of us, inserting them in threads they had little place, and repeating them ad nauseum. He frequently posted anti-female slurs, anti-LGBTQ... slurs, referred to Muslims as animals and barbarians several times, to the point that 90+% of his posts were pushing his hateful ideology.
I posted that he seemed to be an adherent of "The Red Pill" ideology. He made several direct references to having taken "TRP" and his views follow with theirs. TRP is a group who believes that men, in particular heterosexual caucasian men, have been put into an inferior position in our society. That men are actually disadvantaged. The initial draw to TRP is dating advice. Their dating advice borders on advocacy for rape and sexual assault, because men essentially have a right to express their sexual desires in highly aggressive and selfish ways, with no regard for the feelings or outcomes of women, who are generally just trying to manipulate and emasculate these poor men.
Anyway... As Dutch was basically just a mouthpiece for TRP propaganda, doing his very best to deliver his message without violating board rules or turning off potential recruits before they could be properly indoctrinated, I saw no value at all in his presence here. I saw no reason why Jason should allow him to continue to post here if he continued to disrespect the community and the forum rules.
Anyone who is interested in different views and misses Dutch's contribution, go to reddit subforum "The Red Pill" and you can learn all about anything Dutch was ever going to tell you. You're welcome!
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Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
When you say Dutch referred to Muslims as animals, are you talking about his simile he made about dogs marking trees in Jerusalem?
Again, I think people translate his posts in a way that makes them offensive. I'm not saying his simile was a good comparison. I'm saying he never called Muslims animals and defended and cleared it up too. Fact.
Again, I think people translate his posts in a way that makes them offensive. I'm not saying his simile was a good comparison. I'm saying he never called Muslims animals and defended and cleared it up too. Fact.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
I don't know anything about "The Red Pill" and I'm not about to look up a creeper site like that. I never read a Dutch post that matched the sort of ideology you're talking about, but I'm certain I haven't come anywhere close to reading all of his posts. I did read a the post that I believe you are drawing the Muslim/animal comparison from, but I don't think it was nearly as offensive as you're making it sound. Wasn't he talking about the behavior of Muslims that conquer Christian/Jewish strongholds? Would you have any problem if someone called Vikings (who conquered, raped and pillaged) "animals?"
As was said earlier in this thread, I found some of his viewpoints interesting, even when I didn't agree with it. I found a lot of his posts entertaining. I thought he added to the discussion. I'm interested in hearing arguments from all over the political spectrum, whether I agree with them or not.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I just went back and read the thread where Dutch mentions something like they are like dogs peeing on trees. Afterwards, Dutch supports his post by giving references, dates, history, examples, and historical records that supported what he believed (basically Islam was trying to take Jerusalem by force with no merit.) I'm not an expert on Jerusalem. I know there is a lot of tension between Jews and Muslim there. Seeing that, if I remember correctly, Dutch is a Jew, it's not surprising to me that he's emotionally involved in discussions about it.
The way he conducted himself is 90% of my problem with him. You guys want to continue to focus on the degree of offensiveness. I'm was more concerned with his lack of manners and lack of honesty in the way he conversed.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I'm more focusing on what he actually said rather than what was interpreted by someone tbh.