How did Exum look last night?

[Quin's Murderface]

PER leaders by season in descending order:

Harden
Westbrook
Curry
AD
KD
LeBron for 6 years
Wade
Nowitzki
Garnett 2x
McGrady
Shaq 5x
Malone
Robinson 3x
Jordan 7x
Larry Bird 2x

Yup, looks like PER is garbage. Do me a favor and go correlate PER with WS and VORP. Holy ****! Those 3 lists are nearly identical guis! But PER still sucks.

PER is fine when comparing similar roles or players. It doesn't really give you much outside of knowing that high usage guys who fill a stat sheet are awesome at it. You feel free to keep using it though since most of the analytics community has rejected it as a truly useful stat.

Edit: FWIW Exum has a 14.8 PER so far this year. I think that just shows that he is being used more on the ball and is racking up more stats so far as opposed to other years. His offensive role has a ton to do with his PER his first two seasons.

 

[Siro]

PER is fine when comparing similar roles or players. It doesn't really give you much outside of knowing that high usage guys who fill a stat sheet are awesome at it. You feel free to keep using it though since most of the analytics community has rejected it as a truly useful stat.

High usage stat stuffer Rudy Gobert has 22. In fact, can you give me examples of good players who have terrible PER?

 

[Quin's Murderface]

High usage stat stuffer Rudy Gobert has 22. In fact, can you give me examples of good players who have terrible PER?

Good defensive low usage offensive players often have bad PER's. But in Exum's case I think his PER just shows the limited role he's had offensively. Big guys also seem to benefit quite a bit from rebounding as it relates to PER which makes sense in Gobert's case.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

I just think you can get a much better picture of a player by looking at some simpler stats. TS%, Usage, rebound% among many others. Those combined with watching the games and looking at the context of the numbers is how I try to evaluate players. WS is another stat that I don't really have much respect for. The less noise the better.

 

[Siro]

Good defensive low usage offensive players often have bad PER's. But in Exum's case I think his PER just shows the limited role he's had offensively. Big guys also seem to benefit quite a bit from rebounding as it relates to PER which makes sense in Gobert's case.

A limited role because he's a limited player. But I agree that if you're a non-factor offensively, and don't rebound or get any other stat, then your PER will be low.

PS, I'm still interested in examples of these good players with bad PER.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

A limited role because he's a limited player. But I agree that if you're a non-factor offensively, and don't rebound or get any other stat, then your PER will be low.

PS, I'm still interested in examples of these good players with bad PER.

He's limited by the role they give him. He could have scored and assisted more with more usage last year. But that's going to end up just being an opinion thing, so what's the point? I already know your feelings for Exum. I'm comfortable with my opinion. I wouldn't think any differently of him if he had a 14 PER last year because he got to handle the ball more often. You are the one that asked for good low PER players and that was never my point. But again having a low PER is normal for a young wing/guard players with a marginal offensive role. So Idk if you want to go find some more low PER good players feel free to do so and let us know.

If nothing else his rise in PER each year (this year the SS is obviously tiny) should be a great sign to the true PER believers. He must be making progress!

 

[Siro]

He's limited by the role they give him. He could have scored and assisted more with more usage last year. But that's going to end up just being an opinion thing, so what's the point? I already know your feelings for Exum. I'm comfortable with my opinion. I wouldn't think any differently of him if he had a 14 PER last year because he got to handle the ball more often. You are the one that asked for good low PER players and that was never my point. But again having a low PER is normal for a young wing/guard players with a marginal offensive role. So Idk if you want to go find some more low PER good players feel free to do so and let us know.

If nothing else his rise in PER each year (this year the SS is obviously tiny) should be a great sign to the true PER believers. He must be making progress!

You opinion is bad. And your rule only applies to Exum, since you obviously can't find any shred of evidence to support it.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

You opinion is bad. And your rule only applies to Exum, since you obviously can't find any shred of evidence to support it.

Not really. There have been a lot of young players with small roles that had lower PER's. During those seasons Exum wasn't a good offensive player by that measurement. You need more context than a number like PER to understand how a young player is developing. That is one example where PER fails or isn't intended to be used how you guys are trying to use it. Numbers without context aren't that useful.

It also doesn't cover defense at all. That's kind of a big deal.

And once again you are the one asking for examples. I don't care about what you want. You have shown yourself to be illogical in this thread a bunch of times, and I don't feel like getting into a pissing contest with you. Do your own work if you want to argue something. Don't be lazy.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

what's Andre Roberson's PER ???

Thunder are noticeably worse off without him. Can't measure all players with one measure..

 

[Hekate]

Dante Exum's first year Per is historically low. I remember seeing a stat that said around %70 of his shots has been spot-ups and he wasn't good shooter at all.

 

[Hitman]

PS, I'm still interested in examples of these good players with bad PER.

2009-10 OKC. 50-32 Record. Thabo Sefolosha played the 4th-highest minutes on the team even though he sucked, since he had a 9.8 PER.

2010-11 OKC. 55-27 record, made the WCF. Thabo slipped to 5th in minutes even though he lifted his PER to 10.4.

2011-12 OKC. 47-19 record, lost in the Finals. Thabo slipped further down the list in total minutes but missed 14 games; he ranked 6th in MPG. With a PER of only 9.8, he wouldn't have been missed, because he sucks, right?

This season, Thabo recorded a career-high PER of 15.9, in fact the only season of his 12-year career he has posted a PER above the league-average of 15. How did he log 18,000 career minutes (so far) when he has an 11.5 PER for his career? Could it be that it does not capture, in any way, shape, or form, defensive prowess, which Thabo is known for?

 

[uncle f]

I just think you can get a much better picture of a player by looking at some simpler stats. TS%, Usage, rebound% among many others. Those combined with watching the games and looking at the context of the numbers is how I try to evaluate players. WS is another stat that I don't really have much respect for. The less noise the better.

You just quoted a 6 game, low minute sample size PER...

Nobody is saying to use 1 stat. My go to stats are PER, ts%, VORP, DRTG a d ORTG differential, a:t, FTA, and maybe a few others I'm missing.

Those give you a picture of a player and that picture says Exum sucks.