Even physical sex can be a spectrum, or not even on a spectrum. Is some born with XY genotype, but with an insensitiviy to testosterone and therefore female morphology, physically male or female? Are people who are XXY male or female?
The Honesty of Transgender Identity
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Even physical sex can be a spectrum, or not even on a spectrum. Is some born with XY genotype, but with an insensitiviy to testosterone and therefore female morphology, physically male or female? Are people who are XXY male or female?
gandalfe
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Can you give us the exact title of it?
When I am speaking to someone, I use "you". What do you use?
Archie Moses
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Joe Rogan experience #1147 - Dr Deborah Soh
Gender is in many ways a performance. There are several societies that allowed for three or more genders, including much of pre-colonial India.
Archie Moses
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If a kid looks like a boy I use he, his, him.
If a kid looks like a girl I use she, hers, her.
Thoughts?
So it is a choice in the same way religion is a choice?
Same. If I made a mistake, they should correct me, and I'll respect their preferences. It's not my responsibility to watch out for everyone's sensitivities.
♪alt13
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This comes down to the wealth of language. Can sex sex and gender have different but related meanings? If we are to have understanding and knowledge don't we need a nuanced vocabulary in order to think?
If I were to ask you "What sex are you?" I suspect that you would say male. If I were to ask you what gender you are I suspect that you would reply that you are a man.
The difference may seem subtle but it is important. We use male often in a clinical sense. If I were to say that you are male I wouldn't be saying much about you beyond your biological sex but if we're to call you a man I would be. When I call you a man there is all this extra Paul Bunyan stuff going on. There is a reason that the saying is a "Man's man" and not a "Male's Male".
There's a Subway right next to my place. A few weeks ago, I stopped by on my way home to grab a sandwich, and there was a kid there with playing cards in his hands in front of me in line. I couldn't tell if it was a boy and girl. Our eyes meet, and I ask him if he could do card tricks. He says yes, and proceeds to do some amazing card tricks for me. After that conversation, it became clear to me that it was a boy. A week or so later, I stop by the same Subway, and there's a person working behind the register who looked just like the card trick kid. But I was 100% sure that one was a girl. So I thought maybe it was the kid's sister, and that's why he was at the store the other day. When I was my turn to pay, I asked the cashier if "her brother was here the other day doing card tricks". And the cashier responds "ya, that wasn't my brother tho, it was me". So I, hilariously, say "but that one was a boy...". To which the kid says "ya, I'm a boy". Then we talked about video games for a bit, and I left.
Needless to say, there was a ton of people around witnessing the conversation. I was embarrassed as hell. I'm even embarrassed to retell the story. I never went back to that Subway.
Needless to say, there was a ton of people around witnessing the conversation. I was embarrassed as hell. I'm even embarrassed to retell the story. I never went back to that Subway.
♪alt13
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Forget about the whole trans thing for a minute. Like it doesn't exist.
I know a woman or maybe she's a man I'm honestly not sure (this has happened to me). Why should I be forced into a coin flip situation where if I get it wrong I humiliate another person? That's ****** for me and them.
I look, for the most part, like a prototypical man so I don't have to correct people but if I didn't I imagine that it would wear me down having to. I would feel crazy embarrassed to have to correct strangers. I imagine even more so if I were a woman.
More often than not the person doesn't correct you. They just feel ashamed. Someone else says something and you feel like a giant dick.
IMO
Gender neutral pronouns should be standard. We should still have gender specific ones but it should be seen as impolite to use them with people you don't know that well even if you are confident that you are right.
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In the first five minutes, Rogan claimed that there is a scientific fact that there are only two genders, and that "leftists" are countermanding science by disagreeing. That was a really bad start.
I don't wish to listen to 3 hours of blatant stupidity, but if you can point to specific questions or time frames in the interview that make what you feel are genuinely good points, I'll be glad to listen to that time frame.
I don't think it's healthy to obsess over identity. I'd rather live with someone making a mistake about my identity than have everyone worry about the countless ways they can offend someone by misjudging their identity.
People often assume I'm hispanic. They'll speak to me in Spanish when I go to Mexican restaurants. I couldn't care less. I have relatives who are bothered by it. As if there's something wrong with Mexicans, or special about their ethnicity.
It is a lived experience, in the same way religion is a lived experience.
I mean, I did not choose atheism in the same way I choose to drink butterscotch shakes most of the time. Does one really choose to be Baptist, or Shia, or Orthodox?
I chose to be an atheist because I don't buy any religion. That's very different from "atheism is just the way I am" stance that can be applied to homosexuality.
Archie Moses
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I'm pretty sure he meant sex. He's certainly not an expert. What did the scientist say?
Do you think there be situations between "I choose this" and "I am this, with no choice".
If you did not "buy any religion", what were your other choices besides atheism?
The scientist agreed, and made no attempt to correct. Dr. Soh seems to be making a name for herself as a maverick, not swayed by anything like the scientific understanding of various topic. II hear she does great fMRIs, though.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Yes but
1 extremely rare (m/f) covers almost everyone biologically and where it doesn't do it cleanly it can still be fairly neatly categorized. Categories are an important thinking tool we should not abandon them.
2 it is still not really subjective. There is a difference between accepting someone being born xy identifying as a woman and accepting that that person is genetically female. I think it is ok to say that our genetics are real but also that they don't confine us to a typically accepted social box.
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