Fact-Checkers........

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Ya, I saw babe doing that about evolution, climate change, and everything in between. Good point.

What's your point? That you want to portray yourself as the know it all child that you are?

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Thats how Babe got his info is from my inability to read and then went off on a soros rant? I mean that seems like how he gets his info so I guess I agree. He generally gets it from some crap source like me and then goes off on a soros rant, so yep, im in agreement with you.

Complaining about someones info from your own bad info and assumptions is a dumb argument to put forth.

 

[Alfalfa]

What's your point? That you want to portray yourself as the know it all child that you are?

My point is what you said what total ********. Babe is the worst offender when it comes to ignoring science and living his own private reality.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Complaining about someones info from your own bad info and assumptions is a dumb argument to put forth.

I was just agreeing with you. But I guess you are claiming the opposite? No, people should not rely on me for info. I also didnt provide info, I just asked where his came from. Then stated that there is a good source for the info he claimed didnt exist.I know you feel the need to stick up for babe so I am sure you will dig in.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I could link some information about the incorrect statements babe made, there are plenty of good sources of information that would provide that. But that is my entire point is that it would not matter when discussing it with someone who doesnt believe in facts and relies on the opinions of talking heads on the radio that lie and purposely deceive people for ratings.

 

[Alfalfa]

I could link some information about the incorrect statements babe made, there are plenty of good sources of information that would provide that. But that is my entire point is that it would not matter when discussing it with someone who doesnt believe in facts and relies on the opinions of talking heads on the radio that lie and purposely deceive people for ratings.

You could link a library's worth.

 

[Alfalfa]

You could link a library's worth.

But it wouldn't matter, because the library is biased and babe is the only true scientist.

 

[babe]

Interesting topic, thanks for starting the thread.

There is a great book by Robert Burton, I highly recommend it to all. The title is "on being certain, believing you are right, even when you are not." Burton is a neuroscientist who studies cognition. The basic summary is that humans have "feelings" of being right, that have nothing to do reason. If we took the time to reason out everything, we would lose out to faster acting people, (or animals). So we have evolved a shorthand way of making decisions that involves this feeling of certainty. Once we have that feeling, we don't revisit the issue, we act on it. Any challenge to our set of beliefs "feels" wrong, and so we resist the challenge. He urges everyone to understand what is happening in our brains, and to think skeptically about our beliefs.
Review here:
http://dangerousintersection.org/20...s-to-feel-certain-review-of-on-being-certain/

Colonel John Boyd, USAF, developed the idea of the OODA loop, a cycle of observation, orientation, decision, and action. It was used in the planning for Operation Desert Shield/Storm. The idea of the OODA loop I want to introduce, is that what we observe and how we orient to that understanding of reality has consequences. Boyd's thinking was that if you could observe and orient to what was actually happening faster than your opponent, get inside his ooda loop, you had the advantage. In war this can make the difference between living and dying.

With that background let me respond to your post.

I think it is healthy to question our beliefs and assumptions. We almost never have a completely accurate understanding of the truth. What we have are useful approximations of truth, or reality. When we find that our understanding of reality is wrong. we are best served by reorienting to the new information. When you say...

"... anyone who believes in "facts" is, imo, reverting to some pious psychological resting place and declaring that there is nothing more to know.

The internet, today, has become more and more a "social" context and less and less a place for meaningful communication..... "

You seem to suggest that there is no ultimate reality or truth and that all ideas are equally valid. (If I have that wrong, please correct my understanding.) While we should challenge our beliefs, we are ill served by not believing in facts even if they are just our best approximation of ultimately reality.

How we observe our reality and orient to it has consequences. E.g. If we believe the earth is flat, we never stray far from the shore and lose out when the damn Spanish discovery otherwise. Likewise, if we refuse to believe in global warming science, we will pay the consequences. I think we need more fact checking in today's environment not less. And if we find our sources biased or otherwise wrong, reorient to the new reality.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using JazzFanz mobile app

This kind of response is a credit to any discussion.

In politics, I have a determined point of view that consists of how I orient information in regard to personal liberty and personal opportunity, and I judge everything from that.

climate change is a fact I've believed since 1967 when my grandpa told me climate had changed in his 100 year lifetime. Huge areas of fairly lush grasslands in northern Arizona had dried out, principally because of a decline in the summer monsoon in the area.

It is well known that the Great Basin and most of Nevada (Lake Lahontan for example) were under water 10,000 years ago. People were doing trade via boats across the region, and lots of caves just above the shorelines were inhabited by humans. There were saber-toothed tigers, wooly mammoths, full-sized horses(I've seen the actual bones in a huge cave whose entrance caved then, so the bones were not devoured by other animals), camels.... pterodactyl bones inside caves of that time frame too. So hell yeah, climate changes. It was the declining Ice Age, which has so far always returned after 10-15k years of interglacial warms.

The right plan is to plan on it, and build accordingly.

I consider myself in some respects a scientist, committed to a reality that is evident on objective terms..... but since the 1950s our science has become more and more institutionalized, and many researchers dependent on grant funding are looking at what grantors want in writing their research proposals and in reporting their findings. More and more bias is going into it systemically.

Almost everything we "know" can be questioned, but the discipline for good questioning is missing from political rhetoric. We don't need to disregard our current best in anything while doing that search.

So, in reference to Snopes..... clever bias is dishonest when intended to push a political agenda, or to satisfy donors who want results. So, yes, the term "Liars" applies.

Someone who is clearly stating the controlling considerations for their opinion, is not a liar of that class. If I disregard stuff I know and misrepresent it for my cause, I would be that kind of a liar. hmmm..... give me good reason to do better, then.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You could link a library's worth.

Yeah, but libraries are all owned by Soros and have an agenda. Only liberal sheep go there for there. I had a friend once who I met on the side of the road who told me the real story about libraries and what their real agenda is. So if you want to believe in those silly places go ahead.

 

[Alfalfa]

This kind of response is a credit to any discussion.

In politics, I have a determined point of view that consists of how I orient information in regard to personal liberty and personal opportunity, and I judge everything from that.

climate change is a fact I've believed since 1967 when my grandpa told me climate had changed in his 100 year lifetime. Huge areas of fairly lush grasslands in northern Arizona had dried out, principally because of a decline in the summer monsoon in the area.

It is well known that the Great Basin and most of Nevada (Lake Lahontan for example) were under water 10,000 years ago. People were doing trade via boats across the region, and lots of caves just above the shorelines were inhabited by humans. There were saber-toothed tigers, wooly mammoths, full-sized horses(I've seen the actual bones in a huge cave whose entrance caved then, so the bones were not devoured by other animals), camels.... pterodactyl bones inside caves of that time frame too. So hell yeah, climate changes. It was the declining Ice Age, which has so far always returned after 10-15k years of interglacial warms.

The right plan is to plan on it, and build accordingly.

You think actual scientists aren't aware of such basic information?

 

[Ron Mexico]

You think actual scientists aren't aware of such basic information?

Obviously not, they didnt talk to his Grandpa to get the real story about what is happening.

 

[babe]

Lol, we all get it @babe, you dont believe in facts. You think that whatever pops in your head is more accurate than any research or others ideas. Cool, thats why there is no reason to have a serious discussion with you. I dont think you are a liar. You just are ill informed and there is no reasoning with you. You listen to known liars and believe them over people with actual facts, and yes facts do exist.

Also stop complaining about a personal attack when you have done it to others. You cant call people names and not expect to get called names back.

I do about 1 for 10 I get. Consistent offenders are asking for it.

But it wouldn't matter, because the library is biased and babe is the only true scientist.

Isn't that avatar the "Who, Me?" kid?

 

[babe]

You think actual scientists aren't aware of such basic information?

Successful grant applicants do the jig it takes to get the moolah.

 

[babe]

Obviously not, they didnt talk to his Grandpa to get the real story about what is happening.

So lessee, on a 1 for 10 basis, it'll be your turn pretty quick.

 

[Alfalfa]

Successful grant applicants do the jig it takes to get the moolah.

And what's your agenda? Spreading misinformation to try and stem the tide of "progress"?

 

[Alfalfa]

Isn't that avatar the "Who, Me?" kid?

It's Alfalfa from the little rascals.

 

[babe]

I think for the most part, Snopes tries to be accurate but it can be wrong. It's only as good as the sources they consult.

Imo, the bias is purposed, and most of the work isn't biased. Only when it matters...… and yes, it's all about the sources available, and which are selected as reliable.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I do about 1 for 10 I get. Consistent offenders are asking for it.

Maybe, but I am suspicious of that number. You pretty constantly belittle people on here. Most of your long rants have something mocking people on here. But even if what you are claiming is true its still hypocritical to get upset about being called names when you are doing it. You cant control other people but you can control yourself. If you want less personal attacks then do less do less personal attacks and name calling.

 

[babe]

And what's your agenda? Spreading misinformation to try and stem the tide of "progress"?

my agenda is personal liberty, opportunity and inherent rights that benefit us in larger measures. The current world power construct promotes industrial, corporate, financial and political elites.... favors cartelism, monopolies, restricts competition generally in ways that disenfranchise most of mankind.

 

[babe]

Maybe, but I am suspicious of that number. You pretty constantly belittle people on here. Most of your long rants have something mocking people on here. But even if what you are claiming is true its still hypocritical to get upset about being called names when you are doing it. You cant control other people but you can control yourself. If you want less personal attacks then do less do less personal attacks and name calling.

fair enough. But mentioning an example, as in the second post above, might not be a complaint, if I am actually relishing the opportunity for a response or using it for illustrative purposes.

When was the last time I reported anything with a request for punitive moderator action?