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Fact-Checkers........

babe said:
my agenda is personal liberty, opportunity and inherent rights that benefit us in larger measures. The current world power construct promotes industrial, corporate, financial and political elites.... favors cartelism, monopolies, restricts competition generally in ways that disenfranchise most of mankind.
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I think I saw that embroiled on a pillow somewhere. The situation of mankind has continuously improved under the current system of liberal democracies. It's just one more fact you don't care about. The misinformation brigade were able to convince enough people that THE SYSTEM IS OUT TO GET YOU! But it's a hiccup. I hope you enjoyed your time under the sun, because it will soon end.
 
what might be on topic here, is anyone who has an example of a Snopes evaluation they disagree with, and their facts or reasons for considering it wrong. Or, say, a politically-relevant Snopes report that favors say Libertarians or Constitutionalists. Or maybe for exemplary purposes, some stuff you really like or consider really helpful positive examples to support your opposing opinion.

I consider flat-earth stuff just ignorant, and any issue run out as belittling non-progressive folks in a disproportionate or hateful way.... Hitler references for example....as just so useless for this discussion. Let's stick to some facts we can discuss rationally, OK.
 
babe said:
fair enough. But mentioning an example, as in the second post above, might not be a complaint, if I am actually relishing the opportunity for a response or using it for illustrative purposes.

When was the last time I reported anything with a request for punitive moderator action?
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No clue when you report stuff. I am not a mod. You just complain and bring it up in multiple threads. So I guess if you are not saying its an issue then have at it.
 
Alfalfa said:
I think I saw that embroiled on a pillow somewhere. The situation of mankind has continuously improved under the current system of liberal democracies. It's just one more fact you don't care about. The misinformation brigade were able to convince enough people that THE SYSTEM IS OUT TO GET YOU! But it's a hiccup. I hope you enjoyed your time under the sun, because it will soon end.
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Liberal democracies have done better than most of the world, I agree.... and better than most of history for that matter. But it is because of things like the Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights being held up by people and politicians, not because of institutional establishments nor organized political movements, nor increases in government authority.
 
Ron Mexico said:
No clue when you report stuff. I am not a mod. You just complain and bring it up in multiple threads. So I guess if you are not saying its an issue then have at it.
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I consider reporting stuff just contrary to the liberty I like and hope people can have. But I do like to talk about it in threads.
 
babe said:
Liberal democracies have done better than most of the world, I agree.... and better than most of history for that matter. But it is because of things like the Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights being held up by people and politicians, not because of institutional establishments nor organized political movements, nor increases in government authority.
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It's because of a thousand year old document? Surely that's not true. Societies' norms progressed naturally and organically in response to their circumstances. A process that no longer suits certain parts of society that prefer a type of stasis around their preferred, archaic, worldview.
 
babe said:
what might be on topic here, is anyone who has an example of a Snopes evaluation they disagree with, and their facts or reasons for considering it wrong. Or, say, a politically-relevant Snopes report that favors say Libertarians or Constitutionalists. Or maybe for exemplary purposes, some stuff you really like or consider really helpful positive examples to support your opposing opinion.

I consider flat-earth stuff just ignorant, and any issue run out as belittling non-progressive folks in a disproportionate or hateful way.... Hitler references for example....as just so useless for this discussion. Let's stick to some facts we can discuss rationally, OK.
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I fully agree on the Hitler name calling stuff. That is silly and pointless to a discussion. I also agree that we should stick to facts we can discuss. Snopes should not be your only source for information. But that is true of every source. But Snopes does a really good job of staying unbias and doing good research in general and source their information so you can continue to research it on your own. Even other fact checking websites find Snopes to be unbiased with their political stuff.

But if you disagree with something Snopes posts thats fine. I am sure they mess up, everyone does. But like you said lets try and stick to the facts and provide some actual information about why they are wrong from other good sources that are open about their information and sources.
 
babe said:
I consider reporting stuff just contrary to the liberty I like and hope people can have. But I do like to talk about it in threads.
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So you dont want to report it just hope that by bringing it up that mods will notice and do something about it? Or just want to complain and bring attention to it? Or are you trying to make yourself a martyr by pointing it out frequently?
 
Ron Mexico said:
So you dont want to report it just hope that by bringing it up that mods will notice and do something about it? Or just want to complain and bring attention to it? Or are you trying to make yourself a martyr by pointing it out frequently?
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I dunno. public shaming of political opponents is unheard of nowadays, what with everybody being so pleased as punch about Trump.... or Hillary. Or Google doing the Banned in Boston schtick about people who have millions of interested readers pro and con.

One of my points in the OP is the current Chairman Mao..... err Xi.... who has reclaimed the old Mao residence from museum status and moved himself in. David Rockefeller actually said Mao did a good job on China. Really. But Xi today not only has an aggressive pirate program stealing proprietary and/or patented technology, in addition to requiring companies locating in China for the cheap labor to reveal their methods and technology to the Chinese Army-owned Nationalized Industrial complex, he is also having Google do a complete internet data harvesting system, so the government knows everything anyone says.... and scores them on compliance and support for the regime. The system China has emplaced on its net routinely suppresses views not complimentary to the powers that be.

So anyway, since it is in fact liberals who are working.... gladly.... with the Chinese.....supernet legends.... helping the good cause along, it is only to be expected that our liberal "friends" seem to be accepting this kind of society.

Where is the outrage in our Press and other media?

oh, I forgot. The Chinese are heavy investors in the stock of these corporates, and have their people on the boards of directors...…

of companies that have contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to political candidates in just the 2018 midterms.

no, no..... that's nothing. We have to see what Trump can be accused of without evidence, right. By that same "objective" Press.

But I digress.... I need to get some stuff on Snopes first.

and yah, this is a rant, and I've offered no evidence. Google it. oh, I forgot. you won't find this kind of stuff there anymore.....
 
Alfalfa said:
It's because of a thousand year old document? Surely that's not true. Societies' norms progressed naturally and organically in response to their circumstances. A process that no longer suits certain parts of society that prefer a type of stasis around their preferred, archaic, worldview.
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I get it. You like things to change to suit..... But the Magna Carta is still a legal reference point. A lot of our laws trace back to it. I guess you don't know about it. Before the Magna Carta, the Divine Right of Kings was often asserted in everyday life in ways you could hardly believe today.... because since the Magna Carta, almost everyone in Western society believes in some human rights.

No so much in China, Russia, or the Middle East......
 
babe said:
I get it. You like things to change to suit..... But the Magna Carta is still a legal reference point. A lot of our laws trace back to it. I guess you don't know about it. Before the Magna Carta, the Divine Right of Kings was often asserted in everyday life in ways you could hardly believe today.... because since the Magna Carta, almost everyone in Western society believes in some human rights.

No so much in China, Russia, or the Middle East......
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The magna carta emerged as a response to evolving egalitarian sentiments within Christian societies. Those same forces continued to develop and shape the evolution of Western culture. Similar sentiments emerged elsewhere in the world at some time or another, but were not carried as far as the Europeans carried them because their histories did not unfold in a similar manner, with a technological explosion that allowed European supremacy and for their ideas to disseminate. We are not a reflection of the magna carta or any other document. They are a reflection of us.

As our living circumstances and experiences change, new ideas must evolve. And that's better than religious adherence to a static worldview.
 
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babe said:
I dunno. public shaming of political opponents is unheard of nowadays, what with everybody being so pleased as punch about Trump.... or Hillary. Or Google doing the Banned in Boston schtick about people who have millions of interested readers pro and con.

One of my points in the OP is the current Chairman Mao..... err Xi.... who has reclaimed the old Mao residence from museum status and moved himself in. David Rockefeller actually said Mao did a good job on China. Really. But Xi today not only has an aggressive pirate program stealing proprietary and/or patented technology, in addition to requiring companies locating in China for the cheap labor to reveal their methods and technology to the Chinese Army-owned Nationalized Industrial complex, he is also having Google do a complete internet data harvesting system, so the government knows everything anyone says.... and scores them on compliance and support for the regime. The system China has emplaced on its net routinely suppresses views not complimentary to the powers that be.

So anyway, since it is in fact liberals who are working.... gladly.... with the Chinese.....supernet legends.... helping the good cause along, it is only to be expected that our liberal "friends" seem to be accepting this kind of society.

Where is the outrage in our Press and other media?

oh, I forgot. The Chinese are heavy investors in the stock of these corporates, and have their people on the boards of directors...…

of companies that have contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to political candidates in just the 2018 midterms.

no, no..... that's nothing. We have to see what Trump can be accused of without evidence, right. By that same "objective" Press.

But I digress.... I need to get some stuff on Snopes first.

and yah, this is a rant, and I've offered no evidence. Google it. oh, I forgot. you won't find this kind of stuff there anymore.....
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I am not completely sure what point you are making or trying to make. I take it you dont know how to Google stuff? The story of China stealing intellectual property is all over the media. Google it you will find plenty on it including articles from CNN, NYtimes, and everyone else.
 
idestroyedthetoilet said:
@babe I tried to text you but apparently the number I have is your angry wife who doesnt appreciate receiving random texts. Anyway, I'm heading out to CA today for the typical so if you're that way as well hit me up. I'll buy you some real fish and chips this time, maybe. That goes for any other who is Californian too.
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What's the "typical"? A white supremacist rally? You and Babe must make a fetching pair at those. And maybe that's why Babe's wife is mad.
 
str8line said:
What's the "typical"? A white supremacist rally? You and Babe must make a fetching pair at those. And maybe that's why Babe's wife is mad.
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ha ha

He has a job, goes to regional conferences.

I'm in CA quite a lot..... about every week. When I'm in Utah I'm nowhere near his job.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I am not completely sure what point you are making or trying to make. I take it you dont know how to Google stuff? The story of China stealing intellectual property is all over the media. Google it you will find plenty on it including articles from CNN, NYtimes, and everyone else.
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fair enough in fact. I haven't used Google for months.
 
So I did google Snopes today. wow.

There are some folks like The Daily Mail making allegations, so Snopes "fact-checks" the Daily Mail and calls them liars. Par for that hole.

Conservative sources generally operate on a shoestring in personnel and funding, but the money-bag liberal sources look for every mistake they can to call them unreliable.... while they do not really do the basic journalism on their issues, and obviously ignore critics or contrary facts generally. Trump sees them doing that and calls them "fake" whatever.

I recognize the Bigs have some serious intellectual advocacy working on their cause, and can overwhelm the tinys. So I look for the effort to be fair, if I can find it.

Here is Snopes, addressing charges about their funding.....

https://www.snopes.com/disclosures/

Facebook is the largest disclosed donor, with the fact in view that there is an on-going project between Snopes and Facebook.
Facebook is known for deplatforming political conservatives. A California candidate in a US House race had her stuff squelched twice during this last campaign. Lessee..... anybody dispute Facebook's Badge of Liberalism?

There is actually so very much more on this that I did not know. Unfortunately, I have to head for California for the days before Thanksgiving.

Overall, I think the effort being made to address critics does some credit to Snopes. Last time I looked in on them, it was stonewall on funding....
 
Ron Mexico said:
How did you come to that conclusion and where is the source for your info on that?

People who dont like their info have claimed they are getting their funding from George Soros but that is just silly baseless claims with no evidence. Snopes has provided information about their funding. You can look it up and see it. But that would require actual research which you didnt do.
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I have to agree with Babe about this. I definitely think that while they do some solid research they tend to agree with "facts" that support their POV. The fact that they won't reveal their source of funding is suggestive of that, and that I think is fact that cannot be disputed. If they are truly unbiased, then they would reveal who funds them.
 
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