For all the haters and boo birds...

[infection]

A phone is out in his face and he’s asked for comment. How many times have any of us carefully read a thread, responded, but still edited? It’s important to understand the context in which the comment came from.

 

[infection]

100%.... he's also a wrestling fan so I think he gets off on being a heel sometimes.

I do feel bad for him with all his personal life stuff he has going on... I'm curious how his story ends, but I do wish the best for him now. He was young and stupid.

I actually wanted to post a thread after the Knicks game that I feel really bad for him. Genuinely. He was the guy I wanted in the draft as I loved his attitude and that he was a hard worker. Obviously he has some other character flaws but his intangible positives really shined pre-draft (to me). I think he really wants to be liked. I think he feels really alone. Very bizarre back story. Was in the US during HS but who were the important figures in his life? No idea. Did some childish things, but also played under Corbin, so some slack cut for that. He ended up (of his own doing) alienating himself in a lot of situations. I remember him trashing issues with the Turkish NT and even Memo came out in some fashion to scold him. He ended up making a public personal stand, which seemed awfully dangerous for his family back in Turkey and then his dad had to publish his public disowning of him to preserve his life. Now Enes is alone in America. Didn’t really follow the story but isn’t his dad arrested? So he burns his bridges in OKC and then thinks he’s found love and acceptance in NY, only to find out not so. Puts on a carefree attitude, but our response to him really got to him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I actually wanted to post a thread after the Knicks game that I feel really bad for him. Genuinely. He was the guy I wanted in the draft as I loved his attitude and that he was a hard worker. Obviously he has some other character flaws but his intangible positives really shined pre-draft (to me). I think he really wants to be liked. I think he feels really alone. Very bizarre back story. Was in the US during HS but who were the important figures in his life? No idea. Did some childish things, but also played under Corbin, so some slack cut for that. He ended up (of his own doing) alienating himself in a lot of situations. I remember him trashing issues with the Turkish NT and even Memo came out in some fashion to scold him. He ended up making a public personal stand, which seemed awfully dangerous for his family back in Turkey and then his dad had to publish his public disowning of him to preserve his life. Now Enes is alone in America. Didn’t really follow the story but isn’t his dad arrested? So he burns his bridges in OKC and then thinks he’s found love and acceptance in NY, only to find out not so. Puts on a carefree attitude, but our response to him really got to him.

He seems like a guy who was never allowed to be a kid and now has some maturity issues. Nailed the wanting to belong... like I hope this guy is happy and kinda worry we see him a weird news headline in the future.

 

[Miggs]

If you're not supposed to boo, how in the world do you express your displeasure when you're at the game?

Remain absolutely eerily silent. I don’t know.

 

[idiot]

I think booing the home team is controversial because it's a more imprecise form of communication than most (even while we often feel like it's rather precise when/if we're doing it).

(Sorry for the long post, and to get my own view out of the way: I generally don't boo and don't really think that it's a good/healthy part of sports culture. But I'd strongly recommend that athletes try have thick skin about it because it's a common form of sports culture; it's not likely to disappear anytime soon.)

Booing can mean many different things, so the likelihood of a mismatch between the boo-er and the object of boos is quite high. And the context matters: as some have noted, it typically means something different to boo the opposing team, a single player, the refs, and the home team generally.

Some possible (sometimes overlapping) meanings for booing the home team (you might think about your own justification if you defend booing: I'm booing because ? ):
- F--- you! (I'd flip you off if I thought you could see it)
- You're performing badly
- Your effort is terrible!
- Wake up! (you're in danger of a bad result if you don't turn things around/find more focus)
- I hate you!
- You've betrayed me! I want revenge!
- You're making me miserable! You deserve the same.
- You're worthless!
- You deserve tough love (I'm punishing you because I love you so much; or since positive love isn't working, so let's try negative love)
- I care about this more than you do and you're bitterly disappointing me
- I can only tolerate you when you're pleasing me (your only value is as an extension of my self-pleasure/pride)
- You're trying to cheat me out of what I deserve after having paid so much money (ie, not giving authentic effort)

It wouldn't be surprising if those who boo or defend booing argue that booing the home team has the most benign of these possible meanings. But it shouldn't be surprising either (since it's just human nature, I think) if many athletes themselves gravitate toward the meanings that attack their personal worth in their reception of the boos.

Of course different individuals both on the giving and receiving sides will differ in how they interpret the boos. But the fact that some athletes will let the boos roll of their backs easily does not mean that all will or should be expected to (or maybe more precisely, they should not be regarded as weaker or morally inferior if the boos don't roll of their backs easily, in my view). In any case the possibility of mismatches between intention and reception is quite high and is aggravated by the impossibility of ever being able to discuss the meanings together (including the impossibility of a close enough relationship for such a conversation to ever have authentic meaning). The athlete will never actually know why the fans boo.

 

[Ron Mexico]

If you're not supposed to boo, how in the world do you express your displeasure when you're at the game? Can I walk out and throw my ticket onto the court? When I'm home, I turn the game off. What are you supposed to do at the game?

And I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a simple benchmark for booing/walking out/turning the game off. When I feel that as a fan, I care more about the outcome of the game than the players do. I don't think that's unreasonable. I shouldn't be more embarrassed about losing by 50 to the Mavs than the players are. Or being down 21 in the first, at home, to the G-League-level Orlando Magic.

That is also a good point. I was a fan long before any current Jazz player was here and I'll be a fan long after they are all gone. I don't need a player telling me how to be a fan or what to do as a fan. I care more about the Jazz than they do.

People are acting like booing is mean or harsh. It's a pretty polite way to express yourself as a fan at a sporting event. Most fans do much worse, including the people here upset about the booing.

 

[fishonjazz]

I would assume the concept of ‘dehumanization’ arises when one views this through the lens of owners being slave masters and the players being plantation workers. Thus, Joe Ingles represents the plight of a struggling minority, while the guy taking his daughter to a game represents a pillaging tyrant who leaves destruction in his wake, and views players as beasts of entertainment, free to be expended at his leisure. While the people living paycheck to paycheck are surrogates for the oppressive ruling class, the millionaire players become a symbol of systemic oppression, and the fans carry out their lust for desiring to subjugate individuals through sublimation in ways that are cloaked in social acceptability.

I don't totally follow, but that was beautiful

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[fishonjazz]

I defended Kanter on this board right up to the day when he was traded. However, when he gave all Jazz fans the middle finger (figuratively) as he was packing his bags, I gave him a big FY in return. That ungrateful *** has earned every boo he gets from Utah fans.

I felt dehumanized by the things kanter said when he left

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[fishonjazz]

A phone is out in his face and he’s asked for comment. How many times have any of us carefully read a thread, responded, but still edited? It’s important to understand the context in which the comment came from.

Good point

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[fishonjazz]

I think booing the home team is controversial because it's a more imprecise form of communication than most (even while we often feel like it's rather precise when/if we're doing it).

(Sorry for the long post, and to get my own view out of the way: I generally don't boo and don't really think that it's a good/healthy part of sports culture. But I'd strongly recommend that athletes try have thick skin about it because it's a common form of sports culture; it's not likely to disappear anytime soon.)

Booing can mean many different things, so the likelihood of a mismatch between the boo-er and the object of boos is quite high. And the context matters: as some have noted, it typically means something different to boo the opposing team, a single player, the refs, and the home team generally.

Some possible (sometimes overlapping) meanings for booing the home team (you might think about your own justification if you defend booing: I'm booing because ? ):
- F--- you! (I'd flip you off if I thought you could see it)
- You're performing badly
- Your effort is terrible!
- Wake up! (you're in danger of a bad result if you don't turn things around/find more focus)
- I hate you!
- You've betrayed me! I want revenge!
- You're making me miserable! You deserve the same.
- You're worthless!
- You deserve tough love (I'm punishing you because I love you so much; or since positive love isn't working, so let's try negative love)
- I care about this more than you do and you're bitterly disappointing me
- I can only tolerate you when you're pleasing me (your only value is as an extension of my self-pleasure/pride)
- You're trying to cheat me out of what I deserve after having paid so much money (ie, not giving authentic effort)

It wouldn't be surprising if those who boo or defend booing argue that booing the home team has the most benign of these possible meanings. But it shouldn't be surprising either (since it's just human nature, I think) if many athletes themselves gravitate toward the meanings that attack their personal worth in their reception of the boos.

Of course different individuals both on the giving and receiving sides will differ in how they interpret the boos. But the fact that some athletes will let the boos roll of their backs easily does not mean that all will or should be expected to (or maybe more precisely, they should not be regarded as weaker or morally inferior if the boos don't roll of their backs easily, in my view). In any case the possibility of mismatches between intention and reception is quite high and is aggravated by the impossibility of ever being able to discuss the meanings together (including the impossibility of a close enough relationship for such a conversation to ever have authentic meaning). The athlete will never actually know why the fans boo.

Wow. That's a fantastic post. I think you nailed it and you make me think about this in a different way and really see other perspectives. That is hard to get people to do and your post did it in a great way.

One of the best posts I have ever seen in jazzfanz.

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[Gameface]

A phone is out in his face and he’s asked for comment. How many times have any of us carefully read a thread, responded, but still edited? It’s important to understand the context in which the comment came from.

Point taken

 

[NUMBERICA]

Still, it's no big deal. It's just a boo. Every star player gets booed all the time on the road. Again, it's just part of playing a fun silly game for entertainment sake.

No person’s life’s work and career is a “fun, silly game.”