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For all the haters and boo birds...

fishonjazz said:
I have a crapload of bosses though. And very strict measures that are always taken when I don't perform. Players don't perform and there is usually no consequence. Rotations stay the same and salary stays the same etc.
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As a teacher, I've had not just a whole hierarchy of bosses, but also by default hundreds of people who believe they're your bosses or at the very least should be(generally called parents). And expectations that were way higher than anything any NBA player has ever faced. I could lose the right to ever teach again over things way more minor than what NBA players have done. I mean, rape accusations generally ensure you don't get to be a teacher anymore, but when have they stopped an professional athlete from playing? How many dudes in the NBA have DUIs? Again, I could lose my provincial teaching license over one.
 
idestroyedthetoilet said:
I was joking, half wit. This thread is dumb, cant take it serious.
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I'm not sure we have quite that level of rapport because that isn't a detail but cool.

Agree that this thread is dumb. Mostly because I don't understand how people can white knight about being unrepentant dicks.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He's a strange dude... I appreciate his work, but he's goofy sometimes 95% of fans love and support the Jazz a few morons boo'd... they suck, but let's try not to lump all the fans together cuz some of us live and die with our guys and support them thick and thin.

I love Joe and dude is a straight warrior... he's giving everything he has... I understand why he's upset... also think the reporter exaggerated it... how much booing was there? No more than the cheers you hear for popular opposing teams like the Lakers or Celtics.
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Yup. Been discovered Locke is into ideologies. In his mind we're all guilty by association.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
While I like Locke, and consistently support/defend him, his show yesterday went way over the top, was chock full of inanities and, for some reason, annoyed the hell out of me. Cause I was bored last night, I sat down and wrote a response, which I probably won't send, but here's some excerpts:

I am one of those people who groused about the schedule argument. Not because I am dense and can’t grasp the concept that strength of schedule and heavy travel matter in the win-loss column, but because of a perception (valid or not) that members of the Jazz media, and Jazz “apologists” on social media, were pushing the schedule argument as a kind of catch-all explanation, while simultaneously dismissing legitimate fan concerns about such things as structural roster weaknesses, a poor home record (.500 home record is objectively bad for any team with high playoff aspirations), poor shooting, defensive slippage, loses to teams missing their best players (including a home shellacking by the Oladipo-less Pacers), worries that Mitchell was struggling relative to expectations, and, of course, Mexico City. It doesn’t help that in your podcast today, you all but called people who are skeptical that the schedule explains 100% of the above stupid. I don’t think that’s what you meant, but I suspect other people interpreted it that way.

You are correct, just because one buys a ticket, it doesn’t entitle him/her to act like a jerk. The argument that buying a ticket = entitlement is just dumb. However, occasional booing of your home team hardly rises to the level of being an “***hole,” as you implied today. Some of those booing probably are ***holes, but some are just regular fans frustrated by poor home team performance that has so far stretched across the entire season. It’s a bit of a stretch to equate all fans who boo the home team to the jerk who abuses the serving staff. (I was at the game last night but didn’t boo. It’s not my style to boo the home team, but neither is it to judge frustrated fans who boo in response to spectacularly bad on-court performance.)


Just because one identifies (even intensely) with a sports team doesn’t mean that this precludes them from expressing public criticism of the team via, say, social media or even booing. The argument that “true fandom” implies unwavering and unconditional support, and thus refraining from any public expression of dissatisfaction, is as silly as the argument that buying a ticket entitles one to act like a jerk.


Booing the home team for poor performance is not necessarily the same as yelling “YOU SUCK” at the players. Fans have limited means to express dissatisfaction with their team’s performance; booing is merely the easiest and most effective means of doing so. A boo is as likely to mean something like “I’m really frustrated at the moment and I expect better performance,” than it is to mean “hey you, yeah you, YOU SUCK.” Players have a legitimate right to expect fans to act civilly and to refrain from mean-spirited personal attacks; they don’t have a legitimate right to expect fans to refrain from expressing public criticism of their performance. My clients have the right to criticize my performance if they think I’m not doing a good job. I may not like it or feel it’s justified, but I acknowledge their right, and I deal with it. Professional athletes are no different and have no reason to expect immunity from “client” criticism, as much as they may not like it. Obviously, there’s a line here somewhere, and many fans do cross it, but merely engaging in occasional booing is not, in my opinion, near to crossing this line.


I find people who lecture others on how “true fans” should behave tedious. I experience fandom in my own way and am content to let others do the same. There’s no such thing as a true fan or true fan behavior. Again, there’s lines one can cross, but just because someone does something you would not do, it doesn’t necessarily make this person any less a fan than you are.
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You send that right away, it hits the nail and it’s flawlessly written.
 
JimLes said:
I think that's the part players constantly fail to understand. A lot of them weren't really fans of any teams growing up. Or were "fans" like LeBron was a fan of the Yankees, Cowboys, and whatever other teams were winning everything when he was kid. That's not being a fan, that's just being a bitch.

I've talked about this before on the forum in relation to Hayward. Sports fandom is by nature irrational, and it can't just go one way. People who are ecstatic when their team wins are also going to be disappointed when they lose. That's what being a fan is like. If you're not disappointed by losses, you're probably not that excited by wins either and you're a casual. You're a type of person who might have a Jazz t-shirt because it was $3.99 at Walmart and you'd probably tune in if the Jazz were in the Finals. The emotional investment either goes both ways or it doesn't exist, and I find it hypocritical when players revel in the mood during the good times but can't handle the mood during the bad. It all comes from the same place! Our irrational emotional connection to what is really a corporate entity. Or in one word: fandom.

You can't have this without the other side, in this case booing:



It feels like some of these players wish we were all hardcore fans during wins but casuals during losses.
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I know exactly what you mean, but I also feel this is very nearly a dangerous philosophy. It feels only one step removed (because booing is anonymous and limited in time and space) from the "I love you, therefore I beat /psychologically abuse you" argument.

It's nearly the same argument for why spousal abuse was tolerated for so long in this country: it's the idea that love and hate are essentially the same emotion; we can't really love unless we're also capable of intense damage to the object of our love (because we love them so much and so strongly want them to please us).

Ultimately, as Numbs pointed out, it's all about us and our desire for control.
 
Dali said:
I wouldn’t personally boo, but I feel like if fans want to cheer or jeer, than that’s their decision and I am okay with it. I would take issue if it crossed over into racism, sexism etc in any type of sport however.
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I believe this is fundamentally viewed as racism, however, as it is regarded as a template from a bygone era, where the working class purchase a ticket to play out their inner fantasies of being slave masters and where the players will dance when asked, if they want to survive.
 
Joe deserves a statue not boos. Come on, who can boo our best Aussie on the team?
 
NUMBERICA said:
Then what is the controversy?
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Whether or not it’s stupid to get worked up about booing, or whether or not it’s a huge atrocity with deep meaning if someone did boo.

People are conflating the idea that it’s appropriate to have thicker skin with the idea that we condone booing.

Ergo, a guy tells a girl that she’s ugly. She pulls out a knife and stabs him. Her response was not justified, but that doesn’t make him right. You see where this is going. Sometimes there are situations that aren’t black and white and both parties are wrong.
 
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