2011 NBA Free Agent List

[Archie Moses]

I want to understand your position better. As far as I can tell, you're stuck on the idea that Big Al is an elite low post scorer and that's it. Is that your whole contention? Is that all that matters? I seek understanding at this point.

I admit- as I have in the past- that I am aggressive because of all the outrageous Millsap hate on this board (dudes suggesting he be traded for Robin Lopez and Mickael Pietrus, etc.). Millsap is the better player IMO, and I'm willing to discuss why. All I get in return is "Big Al is an elite low post scorer" and "Millsap is undersized". These arguments seem to be lacking a whole lot of content to me.

I'm a Millsap guy, don't get me wrong, but why not give Jefferson at least one more year to see how he pans out? Sometimes it takes a little time to adjust properly to a team. As for Millsap, why or how did he forget how to rebound the the ball last year, and most importantly, why did he stop boxing out?

 

[billyshelby]

So, in your eyes, Big Al is a good team and transition player? He creates better scoring opportunities for his teammates?

And, since you've posted PER, and because I know you hate them so much, here are Jefferson's Adjusted +/- numbers for the last 4 seasons:

10/11: -4.08
09/10: -6.45
08/09: 5.04
07/08: -13.66

What a shock. The adj +/- argument. Just waiting for the TS% argument. As usual, we'll skip the context of the players he played with, the systems that were run, what he was specifically asked to do, etc. It's plainly obvious Al was killing Minnesota averaging 21 and 11 and 23 and 11. And, of course, it's just as plainly obvious they lost more games because of him instead of actually winning a few more than they should have.

 

[GVC]

As usual, we'll skip the context of the players he played with, the systems that were run, what he was specifically asked to do, etc.

I've yet to see Big Al be a player that can do anything other than sit in the low post and shoot the basketball. He doesn't look/play like a system player. I'm more than willing to wait-and-see this coming season, but as of right now, he's 4th on my list of longterm Jazz big men.

And what exactly is wrong with TS% as a metric?

 

[Favors Flave]

Another **** on Big Al thread. I really hope all the Big Al haters don't jump the bandwagon when he once again will carry the team next year. Give the dude a break, he finally was put on a good team and then the superstar gets traded and HOF coach gone.

Just for the sake of it, what big guy(s) would you rather have than Big Al that we could realistically get. The only big men I would rather have than Big Al is Howard,Griffin,Amare,Dirk,Aldridge and maybe Kevin Love

Pau- hell no, soft piece of **** that is inconsistent and overpaid like crazy
Marc- I more of a stats guy and he simply doesn't provide it- 11 points 7 boards?? Love the toughness,size and defense but thats about it
Duncan/Garnett- Not anymore
Bynum- Always hurt
Boozer- Ha ha ha ha
Noah/Chandler- Great defensive presence but no offense at all
Bosh- **** no, not a rebounder, hardly any D and not much of a post game(more of a finesse guy)
Nene- No offense outside of dunking, post very mediocre rebounding #'s for a guy w/his size and athleticism
Bogut- If he was healthy, I would prefer him

 

[GVC]

when he once again will carry the team next year.

I laughed.

 

[billyshelby]

I want to understand your position better. As far as I can tell, you're stuck on the idea that Big Al is an elite low post scorer and that's it. Is that your whole contention? Is that all that matters? I seek understanding at this point.

I admit- as I have in the past- that I am aggressive because of all the outrageous Millsap hate on this board (dudes suggesting he be traded for Robin Lopez and Mickael Pietrus, etc.). Millsap is the better player IMO, and I'm willing to discuss why. All I get in return is "Big Al is an elite low post scorer" and "Millsap is undersized". These arguments seem to be lacking a whole lot of content to me.

You understand my argument perfectly, you just refuse to accept it. It's more or less the Randolph argument. Randolph was an elite post player before he got to Memphis. He got tagged with the loser label because the teams he played on generally stunk. But he was always a guy you could win with. He just needed to get on the right team that utilized his talents.

 

[billyshelby]

I've yet to see Big Al be a player that can do anything other than sit in the low post and shoot the basketball. He doesn't look/play like a system player. I'm more than willing to wait-and-see this coming season, but as of right now, he's 4th on my list of longterm Jazz big men.

And what exactly is wrong with TS% as a metric?

I've never said there was anything wrong with TS. I just think you overstate its significance. It's definitely an area he needs to improve in.

Did we run a system last year? I must have missed that.

 

[GVC]

And I don't "hate" Jefferson. I just prefer Favors, Millsap and Kanter moving forward. This could change if Big Al comes back in shape and with a better understanding of and willingness/ability to play within whatever system Ty and the coaching staff installs. I just don't Jefferson the same way some others do, and I find that a lot of the available data out there supports my viewpoint more than theirs. Is that so wrong?

 

[Favors Flave]

I laughed.

So who carried the team after D-Will left? Was it Ronnie Price or Fesenko?

 

[GVC]

So who carried the team after D-Will left? Was it Ronnie Price or Fesenko?

No one "carries" a team to an 8-17 record. Sorry.

 

[Marty McFly]

And I don't "hate" Jefferson. I just prefer Favors, Millsap and Kanter moving forward. ?

You've never seen Kanter play a single NBA game, and the jury is completely out on Favors.

 

[billyshelby]

And I don't "hate" Jefferson. I just prefer Favors, Millsap and Kanter moving forward. This could change if Big Al comes back in shape and with a better understanding of and willingness/ability to play within whatever system Ty and the coaching staff installs. I just don't Jefferson the same way some others do, and I find that a lot of the available data out there supports my viewpoint more than theirs. Is that so wrong?

You're entitled to your opinion. I only take issue with looking at a few statistics and drawing overwrought conclusions. No one alive doesn't think Al needs to draw more fouls. No one alive doesn't think Al needs to learn to pass better out of the double team. I don't put nearly the same emphasis on the 'out of shape' argument, but that's whatever.

But if you can't see what a skilled player he is then I suggest you pony up for next year's package. When you have a player that skilled, you figure out how to make him work in your offense. I love Sap, but he doesn't have Al's natural talent. My biggest belief is that Ty needs to impress upon Al the importance of setting up with better post position. If Al only does that, he'll put up All Star numbers next year.