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A Place for Conservatives

jimmy eat jazz said:
So then, what he really wants is a place where conservatives can mock liberals and feel safe from liberals mocking him in return?

For me, the whole conservative typology doesn't really work much anymore as today's Republican Party has, in the post-Trump world, rejected such long-held, conservative principles such as: limited government (e.g., opposition to Executive overreach), low deficits, support for NATO and other post-WW II alliances, free trade, character in public servants, support for intelligence agencies, personal accountability and law & order (not that they were ever for it, per se, it's always just been for the little guy), opposition to strong-men who threatened the world order, etc.

To be honest, why would someone not observe what's happened to the Republican Party in the post-Trump world and not conclude that so many of the conservative principles it has so long espoused were not borne of actual, principled commitment but rather out of what was convenient, as long as it was the other team doing what it supposedly didn't like?

BTW, I'm a progressive who believes ardently in capitalism, free trade, individual rights, strong national defense, world engagement, many of the thing conservatives profess to believe. I also believe in prudential regulation, protecting the weak and marginal, balancing efficiency and equity, avoiding unwise foreign entanglements, challenging entrenched power structures, strict separation of church and state, and making the rules of the game fairer. In other words, balance. I tire of the 'either or' mentality that dominates politics.

For me, I begin with a set of first principles and then go from there. My dominant first principles are economic, social, and political justice and personal freedom. In real life, they often conflict, so I'm interested in how we can best manage the tradeoffs to produce a just, equitable, free, and prosperous society. If you want to talk about that, I'm game. Conservative philosophy has a lot to offer to the debate; Trumpism has almost nothing to offer to it.
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That's not true. Pushback on the unitary executive traditionally and consistently comes from the party out of the House while support for it comes from the party in.

Why do people act like this is a new thing with every single president?
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Seeing all the horrible stuff going on in the world, and wishing we could be better, helping out our fellow man who is not as fortunate as me. That's what I care about. I don't consider myself a liberal or conservative. But liberals definitely are leading in the 'basic human decency' department, so I side with them more often.

I would hope that conservatives also want a better world, and understand that not everything is a-OK. And hopefully aren't so blind as to not see that there are lots of ****ing issues that need to be dealt with. I was hoping the thread could provide some insight on how Conservatives would like to solve these numerous problems. But silly me, they actually do just ignore all issues, enjoy their lives of privilege, ignoring all suffering in the world and just get off by 'triggering' liberals and then laughing at how triggered the liberals are.
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This is 100% projection in my opinion. Where do you think the 100s of millions of dollars come from to fill up food pantries with food, send relief planes and trucks filled with supplies to impoverished areas? Getting supplies to areas with natural disasters, and war? The money comes from companies and religious organizations using conservative principles such as capitalism, free-market ideas, charity, etc. These groups are always the first ones to arrive and actually help people while the government organizations are just getting out of bed.
 
Rubashov said:
I don't subscribe to that theory, especially when the discussion is about the rights drift to the far right. Comparisons to history are inevitable, there are significant comparable factors, economic crisis in developed economies, loss of confidence in the political establishment and a rise in left and right extremism.
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You don't have to subscribe to the theory of gravity either. Doesn't make it any less true.
 
Some of the conservative ideas I believe in:

  • I believe in God and that He created this Earth and all of us. I believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and that His Atonement is real.
  • I believe the climate is changing, has continually changed and will continue to change. I do not believe that the world will end in 12 years as @AOC believes. Global warming is garbage.
  • Liberalism kills growth and destroys economies pretty much wherever it is tried, i.e. Chicago, California, Detroit
  • Individual rights
  • I can manage myself without government intervention
  • I want an option to privatize my own retirement.
  • Raising taxes to give the government more power is idiotic
  • I have the right to a gun to defend myself and my family and hunt for food if necessary. If you add more stupid laws restricting gun access, all that means is that the bad guys will have the guns.
  • Government should be as small as possible. All wasteful organizations should be eliminated. People that suck at their jobs in the government sector should be fired just as they would in the private sector.
  • Unions should be disbanded and are no longer necessary.
  • Abortion is 99% evil and is killing an unborn child. I would only consider in cases of incest or rape or the mother's life is in danger.
  • The right to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. I have the right to pursue it. That does not mean the government should try and give it to me.
  • Minimum wage laws do more damage than they help. All they mean is that companies start cutting back hours and firing the people that have the jobs.
  • I would like term limits in Congress. No one should be there for more than 10 years.
  • I believe in and prefer actual discourse and sharing of opinions over fighting and bickering. (that does not mean I will not fight back however or stop mocking beliefs I think deserve mocking)
 
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Heathme said:
This is 100% projection in my opinion. Where do you think the 100s of millions of dollars come from to fill up food pantries with food, send relief planes and trucks filled with supplies to impoverished areas? Getting supplies to areas with natural disasters, and war? The money comes from companies and religious organizations using conservative principles such as capitalism, free-market ideas, charity, etc. These groups are always the first ones to arrive and actually help people while the government organizations are just getting out of bed.
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It's amazing the world managed to turn on its axis before capitalism
 
 
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Heathme said:
Such an astute point you have made. Care to elaborate?
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Sure. The reason the sun "rises" and "sets" is because the earth spins on an axis. So, there's only one side that faces the sun at one time. The spinning creates the illusion that the sun rises and sets for us. This axis run roughly north-to-south, through the center of the planet. It's amazing any of this happened before capitalism.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
You are an absolute clown.

I've been monitoring this thread hoping to actually learn something. You have proven that you only care about 'triggering Liberals' I highly doubt you've ever had a unique thought about any kind of political policy.
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Have you learned anything yet Bawse?
 
NAOS said:
Sure. The reason the sun "rises" and "sets" is because the earth spins on an axis. So, there's only one side that faces the sun at one time. The spinning creates the illusion that the sun rises and sets for us. This axis run roughly north-to-south, through the center of the planet. It's amazing any of this happened before capitalism.
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Though capitalism is not perfect, it is quite evident that its benefits far out way the negatives...

Here are some benefits of capitalism or reasons against socialism for those that are interested:
https://fee.org/articles/capitalism-is-good-for-the-poor/







 
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Finally

Heathme said:
Some of the conservative ideas I believe in:

  • I believe in God and that He created this Earth and all of us. I believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and that His Atonement is real. - Do you believe this while shunning science or do you reconcile the two, if so, how?
  • I believe the climate is changing, has continually changed and will continue to change. I do not believe that the world will end in 12 years as @AOC believes. Global warming is garbage. - 97% of scientists, and common sense. Maybe answering the previous question is unnecessary.
  • Liberalism kills growth and destroys economies pretty much wherever it is tried, i.e. Chicago, California, Detroit - Don't even know what this means.
  • Individual rights - Vague, but sure.
  • I can manage myself without government intervention - Vague again, but depending on specifics, sure.
  • I want an option to privatize my own retirement. - You do you, I don't have many thoughts on this.
  • Raising taxes to give the government more power is idiotic - More power like the laughably over-funded military? Or like basic health care for citizens? Or education?
  • I have the right to a gun to defend myself and my family and hunt for food if necessary. If you add more stupid laws restricting gun access, all that means is that the bad guys will have the guns. - Hasn't been the case anywhere else. There are discussions to be had, but the fact that schools are being shot up, and mass killings have become a daily thing while people hide behind the second amendment is terrible. The NRA is an evil organization.
  • Government should be as small as possible. All wasteful organizations should be eliminated. People that suck at their jobs in the government sector should be fired just as they would in the private sector. - Again it would depend on what you actually mean by this, but eliminating waste is good. And ****** politicians being run out sounds good. But that is a massive overhaul.
  • Unions should be disbanded and are no longer necessary. - Based on what?
  • Abortion is 99% evil and is killing an unborn child. I would only consider in cases of incest or rape or the mother's life is in danger. - No, there is a line to be drawn and discussions to be had. But that is BS. Women deserve to choose what happens to their own bodies. A first trimester fetus is not a baby.
  • The right to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. I have the right to pursue it. That does not mean the government should try and give it to me. - And if you came from the slums with no parents and no support system would you feel the same? Do those people deserve no help? Shouldn't the playing field be level? Or at least shouldn't that be what we aspire too?
  • Minimum wage laws do more damage than they help. All they mean is that companies start cutting back hours and firing the people that have the jobs. - Yes, big corporations are largely evil with no ethics whatsoever. We need to get them into line, not punish their employees. I don't know the best way to do it, but continually not addressing the real issue is annoying.
  • I would like term limits in Congress. No one should be there for more than 10 years. - Sure
  • I believe in and prefer actual discourse and sharing of opinions over fighting and bickering. (that does not mean I will not fight back however or stop mocking beliefs I think deserve mocking) - That does not seem to be the case since it took you 7 pages to post any opinions of your own. But it's a good motto to use.
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The funniest thing about this is that Heathme thinks he's blowing everyone's mind with his pamphlet-level knowledge of capitalism.
 
NAOS said:
It's amazing the world managed to turn on its axis before capitalism
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It didn't. That's why life was worthless and everyone was miserable. Then the Invisible Hand gave the Earth a spin, and everything was great.
 
Alfalfa said:
The funniest thing about this is that Heathme thinks he's blowing everyone's mind with his pamphlet-level knowledge of capitalism.
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Nope, hadn't even crossed my mind. This is simply an outlet for posting political thoughts. If even one brainwashed liberal has a different thought then that would work for me too.
 
Heathme said:
Nope, hadn't even crossed my mind. This is simply an outlet for posting political thoughts. If even one brainwashed liberal has a different thought then that would work for me too.
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You've hardly done anything but bash liberals and shout slogans about capitalism. Whatever, though. Have your outlet.
 
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