Tak
Well-Known Member
One of YOUR own, not MY own. Can I talk now sir?
Privileged by Kyle Korver
- Thread starter JazzGal
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One of YOUR own, not MY own. Can I talk now sir?
Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
Tons of white people, living today, consider black people less intelligent than whites. IQ scores is a cornerstone of modern white supremacist movements. And that's one example of hundreds that can be given about racism in 2019.
People today are very much complicit and guilty. It's not just a problem of our forefathers ideology. It's our own.
Tak
Well-Known Member
Or you could grow some balls and call the things you see fit.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
I feel this is a fitting place to post this thought.
When the incident happened between Westbrook and the Utah fan this year, I wasn't actively posting. Shortly after the fan incident, I read online a second fan had been banned too.
I cringed and thought about what this other fan said to get banned. I got on YouTube and searched for the video and I came across a vlog post that showed what the fan said. I can't remember exactly what the video was titled, but it was something along the lines of Incredibly Racist Utah Fan - Unacceptable.
I watched the video and I was kind of confused. The guy called the player boy and all I could think was this is a bit of an overreaction. In fact, I typed out a comment and right before I hit enter, I decided to Google is calling someone boy racist.
After googling it, I did in fact find that calling someone boy is racist and it's history. I'm so glad I took one more step before I posted my comment.
I went back to the video and read the comments. Sure enough, someone posted the same question. I noticed the responses to the question were mean, condescending, and filled with hate. This made me feel bad.
I'm 35-years-old, and I had no idea calling someone boy was racists. People's reactions online towards something like this is to call the person ignorant and or privileged. Yeah, sure, those are possibilities. But instead of attacking someone because they have a different perspective, reality, life, experience than you, why are people not prone to educate others online? There's so much toxicity and mob mentality online.
After this all happened instead of feeling dumb or ignorant that I didn't know what boy meant, I felt a sense of happiness not knowing it. To me, this racist saying never caught traction in my surroundings or my upbringings and was long forgotten or never known. That's a silver lining to me.
When the incident happened between Westbrook and the Utah fan this year, I wasn't actively posting. Shortly after the fan incident, I read online a second fan had been banned too.
I cringed and thought about what this other fan said to get banned. I got on YouTube and searched for the video and I came across a vlog post that showed what the fan said. I can't remember exactly what the video was titled, but it was something along the lines of Incredibly Racist Utah Fan - Unacceptable.
I watched the video and I was kind of confused. The guy called the player boy and all I could think was this is a bit of an overreaction. In fact, I typed out a comment and right before I hit enter, I decided to Google is calling someone boy racist.
After googling it, I did in fact find that calling someone boy is racist and it's history. I'm so glad I took one more step before I posted my comment.
I went back to the video and read the comments. Sure enough, someone posted the same question. I noticed the responses to the question were mean, condescending, and filled with hate. This made me feel bad.
I'm 35-years-old, and I had no idea calling someone boy was racists. People's reactions online towards something like this is to call the person ignorant and or privileged. Yeah, sure, those are possibilities. But instead of attacking someone because they have a different perspective, reality, life, experience than you, why are people not prone to educate others online? There's so much toxicity and mob mentality online.
After this all happened instead of feeling dumb or ignorant that I didn't know what boy meant, I felt a sense of happiness not knowing it. To me, this racist saying never caught traction in my surroundings or my upbringings and was long forgotten or never known. That's a silver lining to me.
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Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
To me, I feel like Korver's article has caught so much traction and not because he's white, but because he's the right white guy to say this. (I really hope that makes sense.) I could see tons of white people writing articles about white privilege and racism, but they may not have the experiences, relationships and respect like Korver does. That's why Korver's is so powerful. It's been nice hearing what others on TV, the radio online think about it.
Korver is one respected dude. Be like Korver.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
It's definitely a problem today, sadly.
The good thing is, racism is quantifiably less than our forefathers. The world is becoming more educated, less ignorant and more tolerant and is getting better at an incredibly fast rate. Saying this doesn't mean I don't recognize how bad racism is today. I don't think it will ever completely go away, but I feel the world can and will improve more.
I do not feel complicit or guilty. Do you?
campaignist
Well-Known Member
Along these lines, there are some common phrases that have pretty discriminatory roots. Calling a black person "uppity" might be more well known, but things like selling someone down the river or referring to the peanut gallery also originated the same way. Using those phrases doesn't mean you're racist, and I don't think anyone would accuse someone of racism if they use those phrases, but it is something to be aware of.
https://www.businessinsider.com/offensive-phrases-that-people-still-use-2013-11
Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
I do. For the longest time I made the argument that things are getting better and that we shouldn't focus so much on race, and that it's counterproductive.
Then I spent a few months talking to people online and in real life about the issue, reading books and articles that examine it from all sides, and I came to realize what a crock of **** that argument is when 10s of millions are openly prejudiced, while 10s of millions face prejudice regularly and profoundly. I also came to learn that the argument that anti-racists are sowing disharmony when things were getting better has been around since the 1700s. They literally used to complain about SJWs in the 18th century.
Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
Oh, and while things are better, they're not much better. Blacks, on average, aren't doing that much better than a few decades ago (economically). So I don't see how things can be getting much better. That's ignoring the incredible rise in white nationalism since the election of a black man to the white house.
Stars Fan
Well-Known Member
I thought there were two very powerful concepts in what Kyle wrote (not the only ones, just the two I want to address).
One was how he talked about privilege. As a straight, white, cisgender male I get a little defensive about everyone telling me how privileged I am, (and how oppressive we are). As a social worker with an MSW, I heard a lot about privilege. But it was never convincing. There was always a "yeah, but" in my thinking. Like I had an out. I'm not personally wealthy, have not oppressed a soul, try not to be racist, do not come from slave owning ancestors. SO while I could agree with straight-white-cisgender-male-privilege in general, it did not apply to me personally, that was the "yeah, but." However, What Kyle wrote convinced me otherwise. The clinching argument was the thoughts on being able to "opt out" of the issue. I do it all the time. Weeks, months, years, have gone by when I don't think about race at all. I did not worry about police violence, or red lining, racial inequality at all. Our Black brothers and sisters do not have that luxury. In this way Kyle convinced my to take white privilege seriously. It also feeds into the other powerful concept...responsibility.
The second concept I thought was powerful was what he had to say about guilt vs responsibility. What I got from his thoughts on the topic was that while we may not be guilty (as in responsible for) for what happened in the past, or for the way things are now, we are responsible for changing the way it will be in the future. What we do, say, even think today, will have an effect on the society we will live in tomorrow. In that way, we are all responsible for creating that future that is just and equitable for all. Those of us who have the choice to "opt out", have a responsibility to "opt in", and make a difference. Kyle showed the way by being open about his own thinking on the incident with Thabo and the police. He did not have to share his thinking, or "show his warts", but he did. I'm even more glad we brought him back.
One was how he talked about privilege. As a straight, white, cisgender male I get a little defensive about everyone telling me how privileged I am, (and how oppressive we are). As a social worker with an MSW, I heard a lot about privilege. But it was never convincing. There was always a "yeah, but" in my thinking. Like I had an out. I'm not personally wealthy, have not oppressed a soul, try not to be racist, do not come from slave owning ancestors. SO while I could agree with straight-white-cisgender-male-privilege in general, it did not apply to me personally, that was the "yeah, but." However, What Kyle wrote convinced me otherwise. The clinching argument was the thoughts on being able to "opt out" of the issue. I do it all the time. Weeks, months, years, have gone by when I don't think about race at all. I did not worry about police violence, or red lining, racial inequality at all. Our Black brothers and sisters do not have that luxury. In this way Kyle convinced my to take white privilege seriously. It also feeds into the other powerful concept...responsibility.
The second concept I thought was powerful was what he had to say about guilt vs responsibility. What I got from his thoughts on the topic was that while we may not be guilty (as in responsible for) for what happened in the past, or for the way things are now, we are responsible for changing the way it will be in the future. What we do, say, even think today, will have an effect on the society we will live in tomorrow. In that way, we are all responsible for creating that future that is just and equitable for all. Those of us who have the choice to "opt out", have a responsibility to "opt in", and make a difference. Kyle showed the way by being open about his own thinking on the incident with Thabo and the police. He did not have to share his thinking, or "show his warts", but he did. I'm even more glad we brought him back.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
So you honestly think that saying things are getting better is a crock of ****? Do you think the racism is worst now or 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago?
Saying things are getting better and moving in the right direction does not mean you fail to recognize how wide spread racism is and how big of a problem it is.
This thread is about Korver's progression and courage to share some things that needed to be said. Others, as well as myself, have posted either support or experiences that make society better. You, yourself, even wrote how you've progressed.
Racism will probably never be eliminated. It's a sad reality and shows one of man's worst flaws and imperfections. The cure for racism is knowledge, and as a world, we're becoming more educated.
I can see how saying things are getting better can come across as tone-deaf. I'm not saying things are getting better to shutdown the claim that racism is a huge problem. We can do better. We need to get better.
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Things are substantially better than they were. And have a extremely long way to go.
Look at changes to schooling, marriage, bathrooms, hiring, renting a property...
We have made substantial progress.
We can be see that and still realize that there are real problems with racism. Such as criminal justice, quality of city schools, self segregation... we can have come a long way and still have a long way to go.
Also, all the rise in white nationalists are doing long term is marking themselves and making it easier for the rest of us to shut them out. Obviously the personal and short term is a very different story.
This is a great panel discussion example. It very much reminds me of similar discussions posted on different topics from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (Whether that pulls you in or pushes you away, I don't care, just an observation).
They had a respectful discussion and conversation and touched on many points, opinions, and points of view on this sensitive topic. With just one listen I don't think I agree with every point 100%, but that could just be because I had one listen. I felt their points were well thought out, reasoned, and vocalized. I liked the fact that they got together to do this, I agree with the point of this video, much/most of what was said and beyond that the fact that there was a calm, respectful discussion on the topic with some excellent points and considerations. If there is something I don't agree with, it may just be that I am thinking about it and not that I disagree.
I recommend a listen.
I enjoyed this more than the post, tbh.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
It would feel monumentally different but it wouldn’t make it any less true.
Korver should be commended for writing this. It makes me proud to be a Jazz fan, especially after some ugliness over the last couple weeks. We seemingly have a great group of men on this team and it makes rooting for them that much easier.
Go Jazz!
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
And an owner that’s willing to straight shoot to the fans, talk to us from the heart and not some company line, and not push the problem aside and cover it up, and take swift action
mellow
Well-Known Member
Andy Larsen asked on Twitter--What can I do? And Tony Jones replies...
I have really grown to appreciate Tony over the years. I know he is from the East Coast and probably would like to move back there, that would be a sad Jazz day. I sat near him at a Jazz game once and wanted to run up to say hello, but then realized, 1- he was working, and 2- although he felt like my friend, he had no clue who I was.
I have really grown to appreciate Tony over the years. I know he is from the East Coast and probably would like to move back there, that would be a sad Jazz day. I sat near him at a Jazz game once and wanted to run up to say hello, but then realized, 1- he was working, and 2- although he felt like my friend, he had no clue who I was.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Things are better, but we are far way from where we need to be. Our over-labeling society and piss poor news outlets just want to stir stuff up over and over. Our national news outlets literally stoke fires that need to go out.
And honestly, I thought President Obama was going to lead to more progress for chronically impoverished inner city African Americans. Not much changed in his 8 years in office.
But this message by Korver is a great message for those who sit by and do nothing.
Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
And honestly, I thought President Obama was going to lead to more progress for chronically impoverished inner city African Americans. Not much changed in his 8 years in office.
But this message by Korver is a great message for those who sit by and do nothing.
Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app