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Bring Back Paul Milsap ?

George Karl was astounded when the Jazz let both Al and Sap walk for nothing in return. That was the year the Tank was on and it got us Exum.
 
homeytennis said:
My source is Locke who posted at the time of the signings as Paul was playing for the Hawks at the time and was going to become a free agent. All those DLeague guys Little Sap, Bryce and Cooley were tough scrappy dudes.
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Oh, OK. So you're using Locke's OPINION as fact. Nice job.
 
firegirl said:
I gotcha.

I just don't subscribe to the "we should have never done that..." mind set about a move so far in the past. I mean how long ago was that? 7-8 years? At the time EVERYONE wanted length. We had to be longer to compete with Gasol and the like.

You can't live in the past. To say we shouldn't made one move so long ago is way too simplistic. You're basically cherry picking things here and there without seeing the whole scope of ramifications that might have happened.

Just be happy the dude is playing well. He's one of my favorites as well!
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I don't like living in the past either. However, letting Millsap walk for nothing was one of the worst decisions in the history of the franchise. The guy was a fan favorite who improved every single year despite the fact we kept jerking him around on what position he was going to play. If we would have had him in the last 8 years in place of Favors, we would have won more games and been a much more well rounded team with Millsap and Gobert in the frontcourt.

Letting Millsap and Matthews leave were two massive mistakes up there with the failure to trade Hayward and AK.
 
homeytennis said:
George Karl was astounded when the Jazz let both Al and Sap walk for nothing in return. That was the year the Tank was on and it got us Exum.
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Which reinforces the perpetuation of this sunk cost fallacy: DL let Big Al and Millsap walk for nothing, and watched Millsap become a four-time all-star, wastes a season executing a sort-of tank, and won’t let go of Exum because he feels he needs to have something to show for that, so he’ll prop his ded body up for PR.

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LoPo said:
I don't like living in the past either. However, letting Millsap walk for nothing was one of the worst decisions in the history of the franchise. The guy was a fan favorite who improved every single year despite the fact we kept jerking him around on what position he was going to play. If we would have had him in the last 8 years in place of Favors, we would have won more games and been a much more well rounded team with Millsap and Gobert in the frontcourt.

Letting Millsap and Matthews leave were two massive mistakes up there with the failure to trade Hayward and AK.
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There is no way you can know if we would have won more games. You're simply guessing.

Maybe Favors would have went East and turned into an all star. Then you'd be on here bitching about Favors leaving.
 
firegirl said:
There is no way you can know if we would have won more games. You're simply guessing.

Maybe Favors would have went East and turned into an all star. Then you'd be on here bitching about Favors leaving.
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We let a 4 time All Star leave for nothing in return. I'm quite certain that we would have won more games with him that without. Of course nobody knows for sure, but it doesn't take much statistical analysis to figure that out.

As for Favors, I think he would have been an All Star probably one time in the East. Still doesn't make him a great fit next to Kanter or Gobert. If we would have put Millsap and Gobert together in Millsap's prime and as Gobert was emerging, we would have had the best defensive frontcourt in the NBA. Millsap was a great defender who could guard most positions and his steals were amazing. I think he was all defense. You put Gobert cleaning up behind him, and he would been even better.

It's all speculation I know, but Millsap should have never been allowed to leave. It was a poor decision to let him go.
 
LoPo said:
We let a 4 time All Star leave for nothing in return. I'm quite certain that we would have won more games with him that without. Of course nobody knows for sure, but it doesn't take much statistical analysis to figure that out.

As for Favors, I think he would have been an All Star probably one time in the East. Still doesn't make him a great fit next to Kanter or Gobert. If we would have put Millsap and Gobert together in Millsap's prime and as Gobert was emerging, we would have had the best defensive frontcourt in the NBA. Millsap was a great defender who could guard most positions and his steals were amazing. I think he was all defense. You put Gobert cleaning up behind him, and he would been even better.

It's all speculation I know, but Millsap should have never been allowed to leave. It was a poor decision to let him go.
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He wouldn't have made the all-star team in the west. This is a big reason the all-star game is a joke. I don't consider him an all star because he wouldn't make it if the league didn't consider east/west.

It was still the correct decision to let him go.
 
I think what Karl was driving at was why didn't the Jazz do a sign and trade with Big Al and Milsap and get something in return. The trade for Big Al cost the Jazz a lot. One of the throw ins in the deal was Kostas.
 
homeytennis said:
I think what Karl was driving at was why didn't the Jazz do a sign and trade with Big Al and Milsap and get something in return. The trade for Big Al cost the Jazz a lot. One of the throw ins in the deal was Kostas.
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Where are you getting this info?
 
LoPo said:
We let a 4 time All Star leave for nothing in return. I'm quite certain that we would have won more games with him that without. Of course nobody knows for sure, but it doesn't take much statistical analysis to figure that out.

As for Favors, I think he would have been an All Star probably one time in the East. Still doesn't make him a great fit next to Kanter or Gobert. If we would have put Millsap and Gobert together in Millsap's prime and as Gobert was emerging, we would have had the best defensive frontcourt in the NBA. Millsap was a great defender who could guard most positions and his steals were amazing. I think he was all defense. You put Gobert cleaning up behind him, and he would been even better.

It's all speculation I know, but Millsap should have never been allowed to leave. It was a poor decision to let him go.
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I see what you're saying. BUT, again, at the time Sap was getting screwed every time we played Gasol. Every time. Fans and management were SCREAMING for length. We all loved him, but knew he was too small. It was sad when he left, but I don't remember an uproar.

Your hindsight bias is blinding you.
 
firegirl said:
Where are you getting this info?
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It is all on the world wide interwebs. Go find Al Jefferson's wiki page and there will be a footnote of when he was traded from the TWolves to the Jazz. Sap was a 2nd round pick so the sunk cost there did not hurt as much.
 
gregbroncs said:
He wouldn't have made the all-star team in the west. This is a big reason the all-star game is a joke. I don't consider him an all star because he wouldn't make it if the league didn't consider east/west.

It was still the correct decision to let him go.
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I disagree. I think Millsap was ready to blossom but we held him back. We were playing him at SF so Favors and Kanter could get more minutes. He was the odd man out in terms of how we didn't feature him, and the guy still had a season where he averaged 17 points, almost 9 rebounds and 2.5 assists. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html

I definitely agree that Millsap would not have made it to 4 straight all star games in the west, but I do think it was a massive mistake letting him go. The guy has been a really good player and a better player than Kanter and Favors. And it's not even an argument - he would have been a much better fit next to Gobert.

We could have not only kept Millsap, but we could have potentially traded Favors AND Kanter for a lot of value back in those days. We drafted Gobert then just let Millsap walk a couple weeks later. If we would have re-signed Millsap and traded Favors and Kanter, we could have had a very, very good team. Hayward, Millsap, Gobert, whoever we got in Favors/Kanter trades.
 
firegirl said:
I see what you're saying. BUT, again, at the time Sap was getting screwed every time we played Gasol. Every time. Fans and management were SCREAMING for length. We all loved him, but knew he was too small. It was sad when he left, but I don't remember an uproar.

Your hindsight bias is blinding you.
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We had Favors, Kanter and Gobert. Tons of length. Where did that get us?

Once Millsap left, we stopped going to the playoffs. He wasn't the only reason we were a playoff team, but he was a big reason why.
 
LoPo said:
I disagree. I think Millsap was ready to blossom but we held him back. We were playing him at SF so Favors and Kanter could get more minutes. He was the odd man out in terms of how we didn't feature him, and the guy still had a season where he averaged 17 points, almost 9 rebounds and 2.5 assists. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millspa01.html

I definitely agree that Millsap would not have made it to 4 straight all star games in the west, but I do think it was a massive mistake letting him go. The guy has been a really good player and a better player than Kanter and Favors. And it's not even an argument - he would have been a much better fit next to Gobert.

We could have not only kept Millsap, but we could have potentially traded Favors AND Kanter for a lot of value back in those days. We drafted Gobert then just let Millsap walk a couple weeks later. If we would have re-signed Millsap and traded Favors and Kanter, we could have had a very, very good team. Hayward, Millsap, Gobert, whoever we got in Favors/Kanter trades.
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See this is the problem with this line of thinking. No one had any idea Gobert would be who he is!

You can't sit there and look at what might have been. It's so stupid and a waste of energy. LOOK FORWARD.
 
firegirl said:
See this is the problem with this line of thinking. No one had any idea Gobert would be who he is!

You can't sit there and look at what might have been. It's so stupid and a waste of energy. LOOK FORWARD.
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This is all just a discussion. Chill.

We are having this discussion with hindsight. Sure we didn't know Gobert was going to be a DPOY of the candidate. However, we did know that Millsap was a good NBA player and we let him go for nothing. And we do know that Kanter ended up being worse than Millsap and Favors ended up being worse than Millsap.

So somebody made the point that we screwed up letting Millsap leave for nothing. I agree. It was a terrible mistake.

But that's in the past and we now have Mitchell. Now we got to do something to build around him or kick ourselves in 6 or 7 years when we'll talk about how we should have done this or that.
 
Knowledgeofmine said:
Did ya know Millsap lived in Denver as a kid?
He plans on retiring in Denver. Nuggets got great young squad, why would He leave? I heard he even take pay cut in Denver, give them the home town discount.[/QUOTE

They want to get younger and he cost too much
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LoPo said:
This is all just a discussion. Chill.

We are having this discussion with hindsight. Sure we didn't know Gobert was going to be a DPOY of the candidate. However, we did know that Millsap was a good NBA player and we let him go for nothing. And we do know that Kanter ended up being worse than Millsap and Favors ended up being worse than Millsap.

So somebody made the point that we screwed up letting Millsap leave for nothing. I agree. It was a terrible mistake.

But that's in the past and we now have Mitchell. Now we got to do something to build around him or kick ourselves in 6 or 7 years when we'll talk about how we should have done this or that.
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There will ALWAYS be talk about how we should have done this or that. It is impossible to know if the decision you're making today is the correct one. That's why you do the best you can and live with the results. Living through the rear view mirror is not living at all.
 
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