Abortion Bills in the South

[One Brow]

But, people do late term abortions all the time.

Obviously the mothers life comes first. I just wish we could stop late term abortions that were simply, "eh, I don't want this baby now." - I have no idea how many of those happen, but I'm sure that they do.

Late-term abortions are very rare. In the United States, approximately 1.3% of abortions take place after the 21st week of pregnancy, and less than 1% of all abortions occur after 24 weeks.[4] Late-term abortions usually take place when the mother's health is at serious risk or when fatal conditions have been detected in the fetus.

 

[Hotdog]

the new law says that abortion is murder but does not make it illegal for the mother to abort a fetus. This seems indefensible. Docs go to jail. This is the same as saying the assassin goes to jail and the mob boss who hired him goes scot free.

First, it's complicated.

I support abortion rights 100%. That part is not complicated.

But I feel that there is no solution, either full abortion rights with almost no restrictions or complete prohibition of abortion and nothing in-between, that is can possibly be "fair" to all involved.

For instance, if a woman wants an abortion but the father of the embryo wants to have that child the woman gets to end the pregnancy and deprive the father the opportunity to have a child. That is not fair.

Or, if a man does not want a child, is not prepared for being a father, has other life goals etc. but the woman wants to keep the pregnancy the man is liable (at the very least) for a portion the expenses of having and raising that child. He has absolutely no say in the matter. That's not fair.

So with full abortion rights a woman's rights her choices have total supremacy over the man's rights in the matter.

However, with total prohibition of abortion a woman has no say in her body being used to bear a child. While pregnancy lasts 9 months, it isn't as simple as that. It isn't over after 9 months even if the child is given up for adoption. I'm not going to try to attempt to list all of the consequences beyond just being pregnant, because there is no way I could do such a list justice. Needless to say, forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy is not fair. And on a scale of fairness, it is much much more not fair than the situations I listed above that pertain to men.

I specifically didn't talk about the fetus because I honestly do not think a fetus has any rights and I personally do not care if a pregnancy is carried to term or not as far as the fetus is concerned. The rights and concerns of the living people involved completely outweigh that of the fetus.

This is one of those issues that I can’t find any middle ground with fellow “Americans” on.

I’m pro choice.

I’m not pro abortion. I’m pro life. But I’m pro choice. Women should choose. Government has no business being involved with this issue. Neither should anyone else here outside of the woman making this personal choice.

I know too much about history when:

1. Women didn’t have choice. Rapists were empowered, a black market for abortion for the rich and white was created, and women of color or of the lower classes suffered. Get rid of women’s rights and we’ll go back to a hellish time.

2. It’s 2019, let’s stop treating women as second class citizens. Government has no business being involved with this. I’d think my “conservative” brethren would agree. Right? Nothing screams “big Gubbamint” more than making medical decisions for people, right? Or does “big gubbamint” only apply when talking about health care to poor people and gun regulation?

I agree with you on most all of your points. That's refreshing.

It is very complicated. I suppose, for me, it comes down to when life begins. Having children of my own, it's something I've thought a lot about. When I'm holding that newborn in my arms and looking at his face, I realize that he/she looked exactly like this for weeks now, and there's no way I would abort her now that she's in my arms. But, people do late term abortions all the time.

Obviously the mothers life comes first. I just wish we could stop late term abortions that were simply, "eh, I don't want this baby now." - I have no idea how many of those happen, but I'm sure that they do.


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I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.

 

[firegirl]

I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.

Well, in this made up world, probably nothing.


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[firegirl]

Late-term abortions are very rare. In the United States, approximately 1.3% of abortions take place after the 21st week of pregnancy, and less than 1% of all abortions occur after 24 weeks.[4] Late-term abortions usually take place when the mother's health is at serious risk or when fatal conditions have been detected in the fetus.

The reasons listed here are things I don't really care for.

On top of that, even though it's allegedly less than 1%, that still could mean thousands and thousands of babies that are killed. We can do better.




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[One Brow]

The reasons listed here are things I don't really care for.

On top of that, even though it's allegedly less than 1%, that still could mean thousands and thousands of babies that are killed. We can do better.

From that under 1% (obviously a lot of overlap in these numbers), I can understand why you feel that way about the women in these categories

• 0.24% of women took longer to decide whether to have an abortion
• 0.08% of women had an abortion after a change in their relationship status
• 0.06% of women chose to have an abortion because of a change in circumstances after becoming pregnant

However, we still have:

• 0.71% of women were unaware they were pregnant or misjudged gestation
• 0.48% of women found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
• 0.33% of women were afraid to tell their partner or parents
• 0.08% of women were initially pressured not to have abortion
• 0.06% of women were not properly educated on how timing affects abortion
• 0.05% of women were unaware that abortion was available to them
• 0.02% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
• 0.11% Other

If you really want to reduce abortions, the best way is to make it easier to be a mother.

 

[One Brow]

I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.

Giving someone a drug without their consent is assault, at the very least. Also, unlike the woman, the poisoner has no claim of bodily integrity nor of medical direction from a person who is maintaining their integrity, so fetal homicide seems appropriate as well.

 

[firegirl]

From that under 1% (obviously a lot of overlap in these numbers), I can understand why you feel that way about the women in these categories


However, we still have:

If you really want to reduce abortions, the best way is to make it easier to be a mother.

I agree with you.

I don't want to decrease all abortions. Just extremely late term or partial birth ones.


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[AlaskanAssassin]

It’s not about unwanted pregnancies. It’s never been about life. It’s always been about controlling women.

One of the reasons I typically refrain from commenting on the topic of abortion is that each side tends to misinterpret or flat out lie about the other sides position. There are countless people who have zero interest in controlling a woman's body and genuinely feel that the unborn fetus has rights that deserve to be considered in the discussion. The right does the same thing, characterizing pro-choice women as irresponsible sluts wanting to use abortion as a form of birth control.

As your cartoon pointed out, it's always surprised me that many religious conservatives seem so concerned with the welfare of an unborn fetus, but that compassion often seems to dwindle or outright stop once the child is born. By the same token, Liberals pride themselves in standing up for underprivileged and vulnerable, yet that compassion doesn't extend to the unborn child.

My point is that calling someone a "baby-killer" or accusing someone of wanting to "control women" does zero to actually forward the discussion.

 

[Archie Moses]

If your gf or wife go on a sex strike with you because of this, just know, it's not because of this.



Hehepeepeecaca

 

[silesian]

I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.

This is easy, it's a crime. I'm against late term abortions except in extreme situations like life of mother. The right to choose is not without limits.

 

[silesian]

I have a thought experiment for you guys and gal. Or you theys.

Now dont get all huffy puffy. Take your meds before you react. I need a thoughtful answer here. Your intellectual credibility is riding in this. Snarky and sarcastic answers arent allowed, accepted, or approved.

Lets say that a woman is 8 months pregnant. A person decides, as a joke to give the pregnant woman a drug that is 100% harmless to the woman, but aborts the babies life. The baby is also absorbed or dissapears into the woman body with no ill effects.

What crime if any would the person who slipped the woman the drug, as a joke, be committing? Keep in mind the pregnant woman had no idea this was happening, and was upset after it happened.

I answered your question, please answer mine.

Do you believe the following?

• One microsecond before conception, you believe it is okay to terminate the egg and the sperm.
• One microsecond after the sperm fertilizes the egg, terminating the pregnancy is morally equivalent to murdering a healthy 16 year old girl.

If your answer is "no" I dub you "pro choice"

If your answer is "yes" I credit you for an intellectually honest position.

If "yes" could you explain how this slight molecular rearrangement that happens in 2 microseconds aligns to your sense of morality

Thank you.

 

[silesian]

I agree with you.

I donb't want to decrease all abortions. Just extremely late term or partial birth ones.


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And I assume you do agree that we should eliminate all abortions by preventing unwanted pregnancies?