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Harambe said:
You can get it at a lot of smoke shops around. It does something, but I can't really explain what. I was only taking the standard dose(two capsules). I know a guy that takes eight at once, and he once told me it's like weed without the paranoia and hallucinations.

I see Kratom in the news a lot recently, seemingly trying to make a connection between kratom and adverse drug deaths. But in every single case I've seen, not a one of them listed kratom as a cause. Merely that it's there.
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Kratom is nothing like weed.
 
Douchebag K said:
a mate i grew up with got onto marijuana when he was about 19 and developed paranoid schizophrenia. Promising basketballer, had everything to live for and he's a ****ing mess for the last 25 years or so. Medically induced addiction is such a complicated can of worms but as far as recreational drug use goes, it begins with personal responsibility for your choices.
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******** you can always blame someone else for your problems, your parents, society, social workers, the list is endless.
 
Ostertag>Duncan said:
Yes. It sneaks up on you. Anyone that claims it's a miracle drug that's not addicting is still in the delusional phase. It got so bad for me the shakes started to occur 2 hours after a dose. I quit cold turkey and the withdrawals were some the worst I've ever experienced. Don't do it unless your only alternative is something like heroin.
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This.

I've been trying to get off of it for a long time, but man, it's been a lot harder than I ever expected.

It's been a blessing and a curse. I've had chronic pain for years and I felt like it made life bearable for me. Now, it doesn't help with the pain as much as I have to take it so I don't feel bad. The whole idea of why I started kratom in the first place was to avoid pain killers with my surgeries, back and hip pain.

I really need to quit it. It's expensive and numbs you out.
 
Archie Moses said:
They're smoking the wrong stuff then, dude.
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You're telling me the people I know aren't smoking the right weed to have hallucinations?

I guess maybe I don't know what passes for hallucinations. I've done acid maybe 4 times and not once would I consider my experience a hallucination at all. I don't currently smoke pot, haven't for many years, and never did the 6 years I was in the Navy, but I've smoked plenty of pot. I've been with people smoking plenty of pot. Good kinds, the regs, brick weed, kind buds, whatever. As a teen we got into gravity bongs for a bit and I even got a friend of mine to go to a place called "Scientific Glass" and have two erlenmeyer flasks customized (I think I still have my drawings from like 1993) to make a two-stage gravity bong. Anyway, we'd get pretty ****ed up using that thing. I saw many newcomers pass out (not from weed, but lack of oxygen) or puke using it.

My parents were running a grow house in the house I grew up in. I've known a lot of pot heads in my life. It's not part of my persona, I'm not advertising a savvy drug guy thing, but I grew up around this and I've smoked out with all kinds of people in all kinds of situations. Weed is not my thing. I don't like it all that much. But it has absolutely been part of my life directly and indirectly, in a lot of different ways.

I've never hallucinated, I've never seen anyone hallucinate, I've never had one of my weed buddies tell me a story about hallucinating.

Yeah, I hear other people that I have no real idea what they're like on pot tell me stories about hallucinating. I'll just go with the literally hundreds of people I've smoked pot with multiple times until something changes my mind.
 
When I first tried pot, back in the mid 60's, I did so because I was interested in experiencing altered states of consciousness. I was in high school, and had gotten into the writings of Timothy Leary and other "psychonauts". At that time, while I did not experience hallucinations, I did experience both spacial and temporal distortions. The temporal distortion was most interesting, and it's something I never forgot. My cousin and I had just smoked, and we were crossing a road. I experienced that crossing as if it took years to get to the other side. As far as I was concerned, several years passed before I got to the opposite side of the road. Subjectively, that is how it felt. Time itself was definetly distorted, or altered, from my subjective perspective.

The spacial distortion I experienced on a separate occasion is a bit harder to describe, but it basically amounted to seeing my environment from what might be a cubist perspective. I was driving a car uphill. Everything flattened out, and as we drove up, it was as if the scene in front of me flattened out and turned two dimensional from a normal three dimensional view. (Edit: I just realized I can better describe the spacial distortion I experienced under pot. Driving a car up a very steep hill means you are moving both forward and upward. Suddenly, the scene before me flattened out. The car was no longer moving forward. Rather, it was as if we were in an elevator, and the car was going straight upwards, no forward motion, till we got to the top of the hill. So the spacial distortion involved turning 3 dimensions into 2 dimensions. Again, not a true hallucination, but a distortion of normal space.)

Those were the only two times in which my perspective, or experience of reality, were altered while under the influence of pot. Both experiences happened in the first few times I smoked, and things like that we're never to repeat themselves. Not true hallucinations in the sense of seeing things that weren't there, but very cool nonetheless. And again, the temporal experience was fascinating. Stretching out the subjective experience of time from what actually passed, maybe 10 seconds to cross a road, into years instead, was thought provoking. And I was interested in having experiences that would somehow "alter" reality, and have always been a proponent of "cognitive liberty". As long as I am not harming myself, or others, my state of consciousness is my business, not the state's.
 
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Bulletproof said:
I guess maybe I don't know what passes for hallucinations. I've done.
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This. I'm not talking about hallucinations you'd get from DMT, acid, LCD, shrooms. (I should say I don't know cause I've never tried any of them.)

There was a time I smoked pot every day for over a year a few years ago when I was crazy depressed and just stopped caring. I remember when I started, I would lay on my bed and turn on this night light thing I have that displays multicolored lights on the ceiling and spins. I'd put music on and I'd just lay and relax and watch the ceiling come alive. I'd see all sorts of cool things, mainly animals running or jumping. I could hear music layered and each tracks individually. There was this thing my brother and I called Jolley Rancherlandia. It was the high you'd shoot for, but only get once every 15 times. It would take you to a different level where you could time travel, go through space like a shooting star and trip balls.

I don't smoke pot anymore and haven't for over two years. It actually made my back pain and hip pain worse. It was miserable getting off it. I laugh when people say it's not addictive. I didn't like smoking cause it made my body just hurt 90% of the time, but I always chased the 10% it didn't.

Everyone also reacts differently to to it, but for me, when I did it, it made my life a living hell. I was even more anti social. I didn't go out. I didn't do anything, really. It cost me my job and was a real wake up call for me. It basically made me a degenerate. I know it's good for a lot of people, but the people I know that are the biggest pot heads always say how good it is for them and are blind by how much it's ****ed them up. It's kinda sad, really.



With all of your experience around weed, BP I'm surprised you've never heard anyone tripping balls on weed.


That Jolley Rancherlandia is pretty damn bad *** though.
 
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Bulletproof said:
I don't really get #4. That perfectly describes prescriptions drugs, which is what exists now.
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I was thinking more along the lines of a system like marijuana where the drug use and possession for recreational purposes is legal, but dispensaries and producers are regulated in terms of quality, taxes, supplies, labor laws, etc.
 
Engorged On Unborn Gore said:
They need to stop blaming drugs for problems. Drugs just do what they do. Our energy and funds should be focused on helping people properly address their trauma, both physical and mental.

Stop incarcerating people for drug offenses. Stop adding more trauma to already traumatized people. If people self-medicate with the wrong drug, or the wrong dose, ****ing help them.

So many Christians are in love with Les Miserables. They will watch the films, go to several live productions, talk about performers, read the book, Etc. They adore the idea of Jean Valjean. But they refuse to sacrifice their candlesticks and/or not prosecute. They want the "mighty change" to happen without showing any forgiveness for the crimes that addicted people commit.
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Where did the Christian angle come from out of the blue. Christians do not have a corner on the market of judging and vilifying people.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Where did the Christian angle come from out of the blue. Christians do not have a corner on the market of judging and vilifying people.
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"Out of the blue"? Are you joking? Out of 327 million Americans, 240 million identify as Christians. Their money is the biggest, their vote counts the most, their voice speaks the loudest in the United States. There are more Christians in here than in any other country. They not only "have the corner" on judging and vilifying people in the US, but also prosecuting and incarcerating people. AND profiting off incarceration.

Just think about our prisons and our approach to drug use next time a Les Miserables production comes around that corner (one is always on the way). The truth is that the Christians in this nation largely DGAF about homeless people, addiction, or mental illness.

Just look at Salt Lake City: Spencer Cox just slashed the budget for homeless services by more than 50% following a surplus budget year. The new homeless shelters they are building have a total 800 person capacity, and they are replacing a shelter downtown that averages 1300+ people a night all winter long. So, the message to these unfortunate souls is "go **** yourselves". All of this amid the worst housing costs city wide since 2007, and a dearth of affordable housing. So more people are entering homelessness every day because of the market, and their response to this worsening situation is to cut the funding to homeless services.

All of this in "Zion". Where everyone reads about what Jacob and King Benjamin said about the poor over, and over, and over in the Book of Mormon.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/editorial/2019/05/18/tribune-editorial-there/
 
Engorged On Unborn Gore said:
"Out of the blue"? Are you joking? Out of 327 million Americans, 240 million identify as Christians. Their money is the biggest, their vote counts the most, their voice speaks the loudest in the United States. There are more Christians in here than in any other country. They not only "have the corner" on judging and vilifying people in the US, but also prosecuting and incarcerating people. AND profiting off incarceration.

Just think about our prisons and our approach to drug use next time a Les Miserables production comes around that corner (one is always on the way). The truth is that the Christians in this nation largely DGAF about homeless people, addiction, or mental illness.

Just look at Salt Lake City: Spencer Cox just slashed the budget for homeless services by more than 50% following a surplus budget year. The new homeless shelters they are building have a total 800 person capacity, and they are replacing a shelter downtown that averages 1300+ people a night all winter long. So, the message to these unfortunate souls is "go **** yourselves". All of this amid the worst housing costs city wide since 2007, and a dearth of affordable housing. So more people are entering homelessness every day because of the market, and their response to this worsening situation is to cut the funding to homeless services.

All of this in "Zion". Where everyone reads about what Jacob and King Benjamin said about the poor over, and over, and over in the Book of Mormon.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/editorial/2019/05/18/tribune-editorial-there/
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Um, ok. Christians are the cause of all of society's ills huh? Dgaf about anything huh? So is the solution to get rid of all the Christians? Maybe the civilised people can round them up into camps of some kind, teach them to respect society the way every non-christian does. Maybe even like a re-education camp. That'll fix it.

I'll just call full ********. You can rail against it all you want, I'll still call ********. The least effective way to go about solving anything in any society is by laying all the blame at the feet of a single group. Ever heard of segregation and Jim Crow? Divisiveness is never the answer. You need to move into the 21st century.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Um, ok. Christians are the cause of all of society's ills huh?
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Usually, Engorged On Unborn Gore has a more subtle point to make.

I'll certainly acknowledge that getting rid of all religious belief wouldn't change society much at all.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Um, ok. Christians are the cause of all of society's ills huh? Dgaf about anything huh? So is the solution to get rid of all the Christians?
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If you can't read for comprehension, just look at it this way:

Now you have every excuse you need to continue to ignore the people who need you to follow Jesus.
 
One Brow said:
I'll certainly acknowledge that getting rid of all religious belief wouldn't change society much at all.
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I don't think we should get rid of Christians or their sects _at all_. I just want them to do the minimum of what their texts and Jesus asks of them.

By and large, they prefer Mammon.
 
Engorged On Unborn Gore said:
If you can't read for comprehension, just look at it this way:

Now you have every excuse you need to continue to ignore the people who need you to follow Jesus.
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If you can't write to be understood look at it this way. Now you are in the same category as Dutch and hack.
 
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